OK. But I think a LOT of people overvalue how "Great" the UNLV job is. It can be great, but right now, with the political climate at UNLV, the new competition for the sports dollar, and the complete loss of fan support, this job sucks. Flat out.
MARVIN MENZIES IS A JOKE!!!!
- Thread starter JonLester2015
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OK. But I think a LOT of people overvalue how "Great" the UNLV job is. It can be great, but right now, with the political climate at UNLV, the new competition for the sports dollar, and the complete loss of fan support, this job sucks. Flat out.
One of the reasons attendance is down is the conference sucks. Almost none of the teams are even ranked and people aren’t going to be that excited to watch our team play powerhouses like Fresno State, San Jose State or even New Mexico or San Diego State (New Mexico and San Diego State aren’t what they used to be).
And when we start off conference play by struggling right away, that makes it even harder to get fans in the seats.
And when we start off conference play by struggling right away, that makes it even harder to get fans in the seats.
I agree with that to a degree. Nobody wants to see a dozen games vs bad teams, conference or OOC. But we aren’t talking a slight or moderate reduction. I’ll pull up 3 or 4 random conference home games. No way are there more than 3K in house.
It’s never been this low before. If it’s not overcome, then what?
I agree to agree, but only to a degree.
When UNLV was selling out its venues during Tark's days, it wasnt because we were in a great conference, its because UNLV was THE hot ticket in town and UNLV was winning (big).
When UNLV was selling out its venues during Tark's days, it wasnt because we were in a great conference, its because UNLV was THE hot ticket in town and UNLV was winning (big).
I agree to agree, but only to a degree.
When UNLV was selling out its venues during Tark's days, it wasnt because we were in a great conference, its because UNLV was THE hot ticket in town and UNLV was winning (big).
Who can argue with that face????
Ok… we aren’t winning big. It won’t be a hot ticket with VGK and soon the Raiders. We don’t beat anybody at home either (17 losses in two years?). The teams we have beaten are very poor, save Utah, which had many of our own calling for S16.I agree to agree, but only to a degree.
When UNLV was selling out its venues during Tark's days, it wasnt because we were in a great conference, its because UNLV was THE hot ticket in town and UNLV was winning (big).
So bring big dogs in town next year and beat them? That’ll draw? Easier said than done, UNLV is now a “bad loss” on a resume… you won’t get many takers. Those that do, can we beat them?
I think it’s a very difficult position right now. Firing IS NOT the answer but if we spend another 1M on OOC opponents only to recoup 300k because of low attendance, then what?
OK, most coaches. Could Cronin, Dixon, Beard do better? There's a good chance. But we don't know. None of them had situations like ours. Beard almost did, instead he went to a team that already had a good Big 12 roster. TCU was pretty bad, but at least had a roster of legit college basketball players.
Menzies had a year with leftover players. He then recruited better than anyone could expect and that team fell short of expectations.
But we are still a MWC team. We are for sure a mid major program. I don't think anyone at this point can argue against that with a straight face. Guess what all these other mid major teams with continuity and 4 year players. All of our 4 year players are freshman for the most part.
It's more than that, I know. I watch the games. The defense is terrible and unacceptable. Part of the problem was 2 undersized guards who couldn't keep their man in front of him, and a center who wouldn't leave the paint and couldn't guard anyone one on one. The other guys weren't great, but when your boat is missing 3 of the 5 planks on the bottom of your boat it will probably sink.
But some of that could have been improved with coaching. I was more critical than anyone during the season with our poor off the ball defense. Our 3 best offensive weapons were our worst defensive players. It was a tough situation. Still should have been much, much better, I agree.
My point was that there are positives with MM right now. The potential is with solid 3-4 year players that should get better over time. I do agree that right now there are plenty of concerns too. Probably more concerns than positives. Looking at the big picture, its still only year 2 from rock bottom. So yes, logic and reason dictate that you have to have some patience. It sucks now, and it may never get better, but it could get much better as well.
For me it comes down to logic vs hope/blind faith. Neither has the power to make something happen or not happen, some subscribe to one, some to the other.
It's having reasonable expectations. Many of the concerns are very reasonable, and I fully agree with most of people's concerns.
Some have given up, and that is their prerogative. I just think that is too premature at this point. I am fully aware that I may be in the minority, but there are too many factors and obstacles to expect great results yet. It's as simple as that yet. Could some other coach catch lightning in a bottle and have us better now? Of course, but that is more unreasonable to expect at this point vs being subpar to me.
Some have given up, and that is their prerogative. I just think that is too premature at this point. I am fully aware that I may be in the minority, but there are too many factors and obstacles to expect great results yet. It's as simple as that yet. Could some other coach catch lightning in a bottle and have us better now? Of course, but that is more unreasonable to expect at this point vs being subpar to me.
I attend every home game and what I saw was that there were more and more peeps sitting upstairs. DRF seems to be getting more peeps to come to the games that aren’t season ticket holders.
The apathy and the desire to tear down UNLV basketball ticks up each time we change coaches. They didn’t hire the coach I wanted so I am not gonna support this team anymore if we don’t win the conference right away and go to the dance. So with each coaching change we lose more and more crybabies that didn’t get their way.
Tark is gone, get over it, we are UNLV. UNLV doesn’t have any money. We are the last place any respectable coach would want to go. Our hope lies with Sanchez and UNLV football to bring us into the promised land that is Power 5 college athletics. With that will come the money and resources to hire who we want but I Am sure many will still be upset that their guy wasn’t hired.
So in the mean time relax, just relax and enjoy the fact that some of our players will be around long enough to get to know them before senior night!
What’s reasonable for one person might not be reasonable for the next. When expectations are forced to “drop” year after year in order to hit the expectations of the least thirsty, to me that goes beyond reasonable. It says “expect nothing so we can succeed if we do anything”....
That said, I’m in agreement that in general, UNLV fans’ level of expectations are way out of alignment with reality.
If you aim high and fall short, you can have good things. If your goals are minimal, even hitting them doesn’t mean squat.
Well expectation dropped because of the very special circumstances. There is a reason expectations should drop because of the extreme situation Menzies was put in.
We shouldn't lower it every year, actually the opposite. But there really isn't any true comparable situation to what Menzies stepped into.
Could/should have this past season been better given the talent. Absolutely. Big picture, fielding a team that is probably ranked in the high 100's after given the circumstances, very reasonable.
Fall short of individual season expectations? Yup. Program expectations maybe.
Current day, no, you aren’t going to find any situations remotely close to the one UNLV was in. Historically, yes. Which is pretty jacked up when you think about it, especially when the other school was also UNLV.
Bayno and Menzies walked into eerily similar circumstances when you compare the two. Proud program in absolute shambles, no players, coming off a bad year. Both had poor first years. The difference came in year two, where Bayno greatly outperformed this past season, and, again, eerily, did it with two impact players in the front court (Clark and Nesby vs McCoy and Juice).
No school should be subject to this sort of stuff though.
But the lateness that Menzies walked into is the kicker. Literally picking players that no one wanted.
Add on top of that the embarrassing coaching search that preceded, with a coaching quitting after 2 weeks.
Bayno had a somewhat similar situation. But he was hired in a reasonable timeframe. We were still a name who was only what 5 years removed from a NC?
Similar, yes but not comparable.
Add on top of that the embarrassing coaching search that preceded, with a coaching quitting after 2 weeks.
Bayno had a somewhat similar situation. But he was hired in a reasonable timeframe. We were still a name who was only what 5 years removed from a NC?
Similar, yes but not comparable.
A name, but there was a TON more venom because we were so fresh off success and so close to the fracture line. The pro-Tark/anti-UNLV camp was larger in number and much more active. With Menzies, they don’t care. With Bayno, huge obstacles.
He had more time, true, but there were schollie limitations back then too (in regards to turnover). He also had zero experience as a head coach, he was in his early 30’s, the league was tougher. He had no support to start either (though it grew in the second year by the end).
Like Menzies, it was last man standing getting the job because the job was deemed poor. Nobody would touch it. I can’t remember the fourth coach, but the “finalists” of Jerry Green, Herb Sendek, and someone else; they all laughed and said no. It was Bayno as last man standing, like Menzies.
You’ll never find an exact match for either situation but it’s about as close as you can reasonably get. And Bayno did ALOT more in his second year. Fans felt good, tickets ramped up the following year.
The attendance is a big issue for UNLV's bottom line. That is what sucks. That in itself may force DRF's hand in making a change just to make a change.
That will probably be a bad move, unless she has someone good in her back pocket AND enough guaranteed money to pay them. I would say that is unlikely.
So the smart, but difficult move, would be to stay the course and try to continue to promote the hell out of football. If Menzies has just a small incrementally better season next year, with poor attendance, there will be heat to fire him. But is a risky move. Most would think that Menzies did not get enough time given the situation he started from, and they would be correct. UNLV has a pretty bad rep after the mid season firing. Firing another coach without giving them enough time wouldn't go over well right afte the Rice debacle would limit the coaching pool even further. .
But “most” doesn’t mean nearly as much when “most” is 1/10th of what most was, maybe 1/20th now that pro sports are here.
Too many aren’t going to care one way or another. Diehards will have an opinion one way or another. But they’re a dying breed. You can pass what you want with minimal blowback, the media barely covers anything on the team since we are third page news.
Nationally, it won’t register but a tiny blip that disappears by the end of the day. Nobody is watching, scrutinizing, judging the school.
I'm not worried about fans, in the long run they don't matter. They haven't been supporting the program much anyway.
Sure the media affects perception which can trickle down into to recruits. So that matters more. It will make news, not because we are relevant, but most coaching changes makes some news. Especially if fired too soon.
I'm mostly worried about coaches. They are a fraternity. They know the situation here better than most media and fans. They know the crazy circumstances that CMM walked into. They talk. After what they did to Rice, then not giving Menzies the time will scare off even more coaches. You know that they will call Menzies. You think he wouldn't talk about all the things behind the scenes?
Of course they'd talk. They all do. Very tight fraternity.
TKM didn't understand that, or underestimated it, hopefully DRF doesn't.
But no matter the situation, there will be somebody who will jump at the opportunity, either because they are at a lower level school or they are an assistant eager to break in. It saves money that way, but you're really rolling the dice on anything but a sure thing. UNLV needs more of a sure thing the next time this opens up.
Totally agree. Which is more reason to ride things out. Sure things aren't going to walk into dumpster fires who won't give them a reasonable timeframe to build a good sustainable college team.
Menzies deserves that chance. Any coach would. You can have reservations whether he will be able to do that. I totally understand that. I have plenty myself.
Menzies deserves that chance. Any coach would. You can have reservations whether he will be able to do that. I totally understand that. I have plenty myself.
Wow 1 real year in and this discussion about how shitty of a coach MM is is about the stupidest thing ever. Your going to lay all your arm chair so called expert opinions on his first year with leftover D2 players and a sprinkling of a few freshman.
Let’s give him a couple years to bring in players into his program at least. Now I know a lot of people don’t think that having 3 or 4 year players in your system is any better (yuck yuck ) but he needs to get to that point to show what he can do.
Or what the heck Jay Wright should obviously want to come back to UNLV right? Louisville gets $20 Million in “private” donations a year just for its basketball team. UNLV got one $25 mill donation for its football complex. We don’t have big deep pocket donors here that care about UNLV basketball. Maybe a couple but they are not going to put up that kind of money.
We have what we have. Let’s give him a few years and hope that these freshman stick around so that he will have some 3 and 4 year players on the roster who start. That’s what it is going to take. Not constant roster turnover. That sucks!
Let’s give him a couple years to bring in players into his program at least. Now I know a lot of people don’t think that having 3 or 4 year players in your system is any better (yuck yuck ) but he needs to get to that point to show what he can do.
Or what the heck Jay Wright should obviously want to come back to UNLV right? Louisville gets $20 Million in “private” donations a year just for its basketball team. UNLV got one $25 mill donation for its football complex. We don’t have big deep pocket donors here that care about UNLV basketball. Maybe a couple but they are not going to put up that kind of money.
We have what we have. Let’s give him a few years and hope that these freshman stick around so that he will have some 3 and 4 year players on the roster who start. That’s what it is going to take. Not constant roster turnover. That sucks!
