MARVIN MENZIES IS A JOKE!!!!
- Thread starter JonLester2015
- Start date
How could we lose that game?...Oh wait…
Let’s get back on the coaching merry-go-round. A surefire recipe for success…
You’re now the frontrunner for ridiculous post of the year. Congratulations…
Go Rebels!
Hey man no need for the merry go round! The only coach in d1 to not win a conference game this season is about to be on the market!How could we lose that game?...Oh wait…
Let’s get back on the coaching merry-go-round. A surefire recipe for success…
You’re now the frontrunner for ridiculous post of the year. Congratulations…
Go Rebels!
It's unfortunate to see so many people want Menzies gone. He acquired a team that was at the bottom of the dumpster and the laughing stock of college basketball. You don't go from the bottom of the dumpster to the top in two years. Dudes got a lot of work to do, and I'm confident he will actually do that work. Patience isn't something I'd expect out of fan bases and I'm as guilty as anyone because I want my team to be the best and I want it now. But damn some fools need to learn to be a little more reasonable.
Ditto. Menzies needs more time. Tired of hashing out why, I think the non-trolls know why.
I think it'd be a really bad look for UNLV if he were to be fired after this year, especially considering the shit show he walked into last season. His name also didn't show up anywhere in any of these rumors, reports, etc... from all the FBI mess.
Now next season could be make or break for Menzies. And I'm not even saying its NCAA Tourney or bust. At this point an NIT bid is a giant leap in the right direction considering where we've been the last 3-5 seasons. But we do have an athletic director now who appears to have a significantly better idea of what she is doing than the last one (who had no idea) and she also isn't the one who hired him, so that connection/loyalty isn't necessarily there. You gotta believe she has some contacts from her various stops that she already has in mind (and may have already spoke to) for the UNLV job should we reach that point.
Honest question: can we really look any worse than we already do? I don’t think it would be a bad look, because we already look bad. Not that I’m advocating for firing him, mind you. I just wouldn’t be heartbroken if they did.
Yes. We are already at a financial disadvantage, why add the "UNLV fires coaches after 2 years" obstacle to potential coaching applicants. Plus we'd owe CMM a couple million in a buyout or owed monies.
That’s what I referenced in my first post. There’s no where unlv can move on this.
This is definitely a fair question and to be honest, I don't know the answer. I'd like to think at least having some continuity to the roster will help in some regard, but the regression as far as team play was evident.
As you stated elsewhere, they can't really make a move on Menzies because of the financial situation and the cluster**** that was the Rice firing and subsequent coaching search. I think it'd be tough to get a high-quality guy to come in with the recent coaching chaos and lack of finances (which always seem to be dependent on hiring a particular booster's "guy").
Otherwise, I really am at the same point as you. I didn't much care for the Menzies hire when it happened and nothing much has happened to sway my opinion. I'll give him a pass on the first year because of the circumstances, even though there were non-roster-related concerns I had his first year too, which continued into this season too.
Given the circumstances, I don't think he should or can be fired, but I really don't have much faith that he is "the guy." After Rice was let go, I said "my biggest fear was that we'd have this extensive coaching search, strike out on all our top candidates, and end up with Marvin Menzies." And here we are.
I still support the team. I've got my season tickets for next year and will show up and hope and cheer and pray and I really hope I'm wrong about MM. Guess we'll see next year.
I'm of the opinion that the only way you let Menzies go is if you have a top notch coach ready to sign. By top notch I mean a coach that will breathe life into the already lifeless fanbase. Someone that will get people excited again and want to go to the games. I seriously doubt UNLV can come up with the money to do that and firing Menzies to replace him with another coach that most likely wont get results for 2 or 3 years doesn't make sense to me. I'm starting to believe more and more that Menzies isn't the right guy, but next year UNLV will have something we haven't had in YEARS, a majority of the team returning. We lose 2 for sure, most likely 3, maybe more depending on transfers, but we should get at least 8 or 9 players back next year, so lets just see what Menzies can do with some team continuity. If he struggles again, its most likely..........bye, bye, bye.......bye, bye, bye (singing in a Justin Timberlake voice).
So then what’s the barometer? How much does he have to win to win you all over? What does a successful season look like? I hear a lot of people talking about this and that but nobody is actually saying what success would look like to them.
For me it would be 4 or 5 more wins, a top 3 finish in the MWC and a semi final in the MWC. That’s how I will measure this next season. And if he doesn’t get there but the team still shows improvement I will still be okay because letting another coach go will be detrimental to my UNLV.
No high level coaches are coming people! None! And if we have a continuous revolving door we will forever languish in mediocrity.
Gotta give this staff 5 years at a minimum. The first quarter of the season lifted most of our expectations and because they failed in the regular season people are thinking he can’t do it.
The turnout from both students and fans was dismal too!
For me it would be 4 or 5 more wins, a top 3 finish in the MWC and a semi final in the MWC. That’s how I will measure this next season. And if he doesn’t get there but the team still shows improvement I will still be okay because letting another coach go will be detrimental to my UNLV.
No high level coaches are coming people! None! And if we have a continuous revolving door we will forever languish in mediocrity.
Gotta give this staff 5 years at a minimum. The first quarter of the season lifted most of our expectations and because they failed in the regular season people are thinking he can’t do it.
The turnout from both students and fans was dismal too!
For the first time that I can recall, I think attendance become a critical factor. Because we are bottom of the barrel. These numbers have been for worse (actual, not sold) than i have ever seen. The AFA game in MWCT might have had 700.
You can’t last with that. Winning doesn’t bring back fans. We were 11-2. Nobody showed up. You need the right wins, not just fluff.
Not Joe. If you dont know the barometer then you are either under the rock or truly choose not to see. The answer is simple wins some game that you are not suppose to because of your effort. Efforts is key. Defense and rebounding take efforts. Playing hard all the time take efforts. "Playing" means that both the coaching staff and the players make efforts. I see a lot of MM arm crossings during opponents' runs this season. No timeout, no yelling...just arm crossing and waddle around the sideline. Both the coaches and the players need to display passion and aggressiveness. Reno wins a lot of game because they are the aggressors. We are in Vegas, the gaming capital of the world, this is the most aggressive town I have ever seen. Show some passion and aggression.
~The things that worry me about Menzies are:
1. At NMSU he had double digit losses in every season he was there. After he leaves, the next 2 coaches put together the 2 best seasons NMSU has had since the early 90's. That gives the indication that Menzies can put teams together, but can't win with those teams.
2. The end of season collapses. Last year the Rebels went 1-11 in their last 12 games, this year it was 1-6 in their last 7 with some embarrassing blowouts among the losses. If the Rebels started slow and improved, that might be okay, but to start strong and then crap your pants at the end is the same thing we've been seeing for the last 5 years now and its very frustrating.
3. UNLV won 9 games against teams with 10 wins or less, that's almost half our wins against creampuffs. That tells me that if the schedule was a little tougher, the Rebels may have only won 15 or 16 games. 14 of our wins were against teams with losing records.
4. Defense, or lack thereof. The Rebels were a terrible jump shooting team, but the defense was just atrocious. Teams knew that shooting 3's against us was a recipe for success. The Rebels allowed more 3 pt fg's than any other MW team during conference play and the opponents hit 45% of those.
I've defended Menzies a lot this year, but there are quite a few worry some things that have swayed my opinion a little. He definitely needs at least one more year, but there needs to be improvement. He accomplished some good things this year, ending the ridiculous losing streak to SDSU, beating a ranked team for the first time, winning at Ft. Collins and at Clune, two things the Rebels hadn't done in years, and the Rebels gave Arizona all they could handle. UNLV can't afford to play in nearly empty arenas for too much longer though as Joe has stated, that's why I think next year is crucial. My barometer for success would be for the Rebels to improve as the year goes on and finish strong and at least compete for the MW crown. With the talent we have there's no reason we shouldn't.
1. At NMSU he had double digit losses in every season he was there. After he leaves, the next 2 coaches put together the 2 best seasons NMSU has had since the early 90's. That gives the indication that Menzies can put teams together, but can't win with those teams.
2. The end of season collapses. Last year the Rebels went 1-11 in their last 12 games, this year it was 1-6 in their last 7 with some embarrassing blowouts among the losses. If the Rebels started slow and improved, that might be okay, but to start strong and then crap your pants at the end is the same thing we've been seeing for the last 5 years now and its very frustrating.
3. UNLV won 9 games against teams with 10 wins or less, that's almost half our wins against creampuffs. That tells me that if the schedule was a little tougher, the Rebels may have only won 15 or 16 games. 14 of our wins were against teams with losing records.
4. Defense, or lack thereof. The Rebels were a terrible jump shooting team, but the defense was just atrocious. Teams knew that shooting 3's against us was a recipe for success. The Rebels allowed more 3 pt fg's than any other MW team during conference play and the opponents hit 45% of those.
I've defended Menzies a lot this year, but there are quite a few worry some things that have swayed my opinion a little. He definitely needs at least one more year, but there needs to be improvement. He accomplished some good things this year, ending the ridiculous losing streak to SDSU, beating a ranked team for the first time, winning at Ft. Collins and at Clune, two things the Rebels hadn't done in years, and the Rebels gave Arizona all they could handle. UNLV can't afford to play in nearly empty arenas for too much longer though as Joe has stated, that's why I think next year is crucial. My barometer for success would be for the Rebels to improve as the year goes on and finish strong and at least compete for the MW crown. With the talent we have there's no reason we shouldn't.
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I can’t believe all of you are exploring this subject. As we all know, Menzies had no chance last season, due to his hiring after the recruiting season. So, this season was his first in which he had recruited some of the players.
And you want to dump him because his very first season wasn’t a trip to the NCAA’s? How about we give him a reasonable chance to put together a team with some continuity? Next season we will be having several returning talents. That’s something that hasn’t happened for the last several teams.
I noted that someone pointed out that he had double-digit losses at NMSU. But his losses came in the OOC portion of their schedule. In those games, a school like that plays teams that are far above their talent-level. They must do that to generate money for their program. His conference records were more like 13-1, 12-4, 14-4, 10-4, 11-5. So, when he played teams that were comparable to the Aggies, he excelled.
C’mon guys, lets give the man a solid shot to either succeed or fail. I know that fans tend to be impatient. But this is ridiculous. You’re burying him without a chance to put together a program. No one can say, at this juncture, which way his tenure will play out. Let’s watch and see.
Go Rebels!
Well I did say that he should get one more year, unless they have a home run hire lined up, which I know they can't afford. As I said, I've defended Menzies a lot and took some crap for it, I also said that as long as he improves year to year I'll support him. However, no one can deny the lack of excitement surrounding the program right now, its at an all time low. Menzies was almost universally unwanted, which has a lot to do with that, it also means that he will have to do more than any other UNLV coach to get the fans back. Winning usually cures these things, but Menzies will have to win a lot next year and get a lot of fans back because UNLV can't afford to have the Hustlin' Rebs out attendance the Runnin' Rebs.
It is amazing to me that this conversation is taking place. When is the last time unlv hit a home run hiring a basketball coach, 1973. That is 45 years ago!!
There is zero credible evidence that if MM were fired at the end of next season, that the new coach would have any better chance of success. It may be time to sit back and give the basketball program time to succeed or fail while putting some pressure on football to help pay the bills. After all, imagine how pathetic it will look when there are 12,000 fans sitting in the 65,000 seat Raider/Rebel Stadium.
There is zero credible evidence that if MM were fired at the end of next season, that the new coach would have any better chance of success. It may be time to sit back and give the basketball program time to succeed or fail while putting some pressure on football to help pay the bills. After all, imagine how pathetic it will look when there are 12,000 fans sitting in the 65,000 seat Raider/Rebel Stadium.
I think this would be a fair expectation going into next season. But then how realistic is a Top 3 finish considering there really likely to be a pretty big gap between UNR, SDSU and (likely) UNM and the rest of the league.
I think the results aren't the problem as much as how we got there. I know his first year was a wash given the circumstances, but the team did not get better or improve as the year went on, or if they did, it wasn't at the same rate other teams did or it didn't translate to the court. The MW was way down last year and we went 1-11 to close out the conference season. Again, team had to be thrown together from whatever he could get, so it was expected to be bad, but for me, it raised concerns.
This year looked very similar by the end of the conference season. Finished the conference season on a big slide, team didn't improve comparable to other teams in the conference and we finished 8th in a bad to mediocre MW conference.
And the improvement from 11 wins to 20 wins looks great on paper, but our schedule was horrible. Loaded with cream puffs to rack up the wins, which given where the program was when Menzies took over, I don't necessarily think was such a bad idea. But that 11-win Rebel team would like have gotten to 15 wins with this schedule, so I don't know how much weight to give the improvement in win total.
All that being said, Menzies deserves at least one more year. There are a lot of pieces returning (as of now anyway) and some much needed talent at the guard position coming in. It does take time to rebuild, and as long as there is substantial progress evident, Menzies should be given a chance. I just don't know how much faith I have in his ability. And given the fact we have a new AD, I'm not sure he'll survive another bottom of the conference finish.
MM needs to address:
Defense
Work ethic/intensity
3 pointers
Improve in those areas and we are good...
Defense
Work ethic/intensity
3 pointers
Improve in those areas and we are good...
For me, the biggest area that needs improvement is defense. As I typed this, I thought it is a little weird that this is also the problem in football!
I would like to see us play 40 minutes of tough defense. The offense scored at a high percentage. We got rebounds. Had way too many unforced turnovers but that ought to be easier to improve.
I am ready to sit back and see what the roster looks like for next year. Who stays and what new recruits join the rebels?
I would like to see us play 40 minutes of tough defense. The offense scored at a high percentage. We got rebounds. Had way too many unforced turnovers but that ought to be easier to improve.
I am ready to sit back and see what the roster looks like for next year. Who stays and what new recruits join the rebels?
Agreed. I think derense and intensity go hand in hand. Looking forward to see the roster for next year as well...
Yeah. It was a huge home run. And Maxson and his cronies (I’m sure you know who they are since you are one of them) ran him TF out of town. Yay! You guys won! The machine kept rolling as you predicted. And we became one of the strongest academic institutions in the country!
Hip Hip Hooray! You and Maxson won, Hiker. I’m sure you both smile at every game with less than 500 people.
Boy Joe, you give me way too much credit. Regardless of what happened back when Maxson was president, I am trying to deal with our current reality. Why keep bringing up water that is under the bridge, over the dam, and across the ocean.
UNLV got to its current situation by the accumulation of lots of little steps by lots of different people, most of whom, if not all, currently have nothing to do with the University. Lamenting those decisions by those people seems fruitless to me. Instead, I try to find some glimmer of positivity to focus on from one season to the next. Go Rebels.
UNLV got to its current situation by the accumulation of lots of little steps by lots of different people, most of whom, if not all, currently have nothing to do with the University. Lamenting those decisions by those people seems fruitless to me. Instead, I try to find some glimmer of positivity to focus on from one season to the next. Go Rebels.
It’s a current reality that stems from the cause you were fighting for. The trajectory of UNLV forever shifted towards shitdom because of that battle.
While I agree there were many missteps along the way that could have made things better or not so bad, the fact is that the fuse that blew it to hell was because of Maxson and his supporters.
Or do you have the gall to deny that?
UNLV's administrations have been either apathetic or outright hostile towards athletics throughout its history.
Lighting strikes with some boosters hiring a Hall of Fame Coach who turns the basketball program into a powerhouse - even with the team mired in some low key mid-major conferences and the NCAA & his own university President trying to knee cap him every step of the way. Nothing short of miraculous.
And a contingent led by Maxon - which you were apart of - ended it all.
It's amazing to me how you can't admit how wrong you were. UNLV's basketball program went into a tailspin. The university didn't become Harvard of the West. Everything your side said to support your position was either duplicitous or never came true.
And yes, if Tark wasn't unceremoniously sacked and continued to coach for another 10 years - the program would be in a different hemisphere right now. That's incontrovertible.
Let's face it, your side destroyed the best thing to ever happen to the Vegas community.
That looking for a “glimmer of positivity” … it was, at one time, the most radiant of lights. That you have to search for tiny morsels now… your side reduced it to that.
I’m not saying it was the ultimate intent for everyone on that side. It was for some, though.
But even if the intent wasn’t there, we have a bunch of ignorant, incredibly shortsighted people that can not comprehend some of the potential outcomes to their decisions.
TMK intended on getting coach A, B or C. But because her very shortsighted decision of a mid season firing, she underestimated the radius of potential harm… and instead we ended up with the last man standing. And the program has suffered in fan support/money, wins, any smidgen of national mentions, etc.
If you could go back in time and stop what Maxson did, would you? Do you think UNLV, athletics and academics, any net gains, are higher because of Maxson?
Was it worth it?
Not sure what I am supposed to be denying. Was I a supporter of Maxson? Yes. Did I have anything to do with Tark leaving UNLV? No. Did I think it was a good idea that Tark resigned after the famous hot tub picture came out? Yes. Did I envision the cluster f&&&k that happened after Tark un-resigned? Absolutely not? Did I support Grg when he was appointed coach? Absolutely yes even though I was opposed to his hiring in the first place.
Did the administration, from Maxson on, deliberately undermine athletics? Of course not. That notion is ridiculous. There is difference between people making decisions that in retrospect lead to an unwanted outcome, and people purposefully trying to have an unsuccessful athletic program. Maxson would have loved it if Rollie came in and won three national championships in a row. As it turned out, the hiring of Rollie and the secret contract were an abysmal disaster. The first of a series that makes us begin to look like the Chicago Cubs of college basketball. Note that even the Cubs their day in the sun. But there was no conspiracy trying to keep athletics mediocre. But if believing that and hating on UNLV's administration rings your bell, go for it.
Did the administration, from Maxson on, deliberately undermine athletics? Of course not. That notion is ridiculous. There is difference between people making decisions that in retrospect lead to an unwanted outcome, and people purposefully trying to have an unsuccessful athletic program. Maxson would have loved it if Rollie came in and won three national championships in a row. As it turned out, the hiring of Rollie and the secret contract were an abysmal disaster. The first of a series that makes us begin to look like the Chicago Cubs of college basketball. Note that even the Cubs their day in the sun. But there was no conspiracy trying to keep athletics mediocre. But if believing that and hating on UNLV's administration rings your bell, go for it.
People making decisions that in retrospect lead to an unwanted outcome… when it’s your job to get it right. The reason for your hire… if I do that, somebody dies and I don’t make the coin these incompetents make.
Our replies passed in cyber space. To be honest, I don't have the faintest notion of how Tark and Maxson interacted. Do I think that their relationship, or lack thereof, contributed to the debacle? Absolutely.
I just really don't know what went on during that critical period between Tark's resignation and his attempted resurrection. Did Maxson renege on some promise or promises? Did Tark just, on his own, decide to change his mind? Clearly the crux of the problem that initiated our troubles happened during that period. And I have zero information about what went down then. In retrospect, there must have been a better way to resolve whatever issues existed between Tark and Maxson at that time.
I just really don't know what went on during that critical period between Tark's resignation and his attempted resurrection. Did Maxson renege on some promise or promises? Did Tark just, on his own, decide to change his mind? Clearly the crux of the problem that initiated our troubles happened during that period. And I have zero information about what went down then. In retrospect, there must have been a better way to resolve whatever issues existed between Tark and Maxson at that time.
Exactly the wishy washy, gray response I expected from academia.
IS UNLV BETTER OFF FOR HAVING MAXSON? (enter a ton of excuses, branching answers, etc).
And let me guess. You HAVE had lunch before with Dr. Deacon. But not with Baepler. Correct?
I think the poor attendance had more to do with last season and the seasons under Rice. The team hasn’t won a game in the tournament since 2008. Expectations were so low coming into the season. And hockey could have distracted people from basketball.
If the team made the tournament last year, started the season ranked, and had that 11-2 start I doubt the attendance would have been what it was.
