What would it take for you to support a Coach Sanchez return for next year

[dcut03]

Why should UNLV be held hostage by Fertitta money?

It's not being hostage by the Fertittas, that money has all but stopped at this point. It's being held hostage by the ability to buy out CTS ( and his assistants) contracts, then scrounging up enough money to hire a coach that may actually do any better than CTS.

 

[j. spilotro]

Indeed.

I mean seriously; it’s perfect world vs real world...

It's not being hostage by the Fertittas, that money has all but stopped at this point. It's being held hostage by the ability to buy out CTS ( and his assistants) contracts, then scrounging up enough money to hire a coach that may actually do any better than CTS.

When you think with your heart, when you get tunnel vision on what you want, not what you can get.... you’re going to be disappointed more times than not. As you said, you have to look at the surrounding factors.

Guess what, we COULD be USC if we had USC money and USC support and USC’s tradition and USC’s boosters, USC’s alumni, USC’s guys in the pros, USC recruiting, USC’s conference, USC’s TV deal.

We don’t. There’s no friggin’ money. And somehow some people think UNLV means UNLV athletics. UNLV athletics gets a tiny piece of the tiny UNLV pie. Reallocation of funds? Good luck with that. State money/bailout? Not happening at the degree UNLV needs it. Outside money? That’s what we just got and it’s conditional and it was significant by UNLV standards.

It really is simple economics.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Maybe CTS should talk to coaches that have taken shit fb programs and turned them around. KState, NW, Temple. Those were real shit programs for a long time yet there were coaches who were finally able to get it going.

He knows. Everyone knows. All of them had the monetary support to get it done. KSU & NW have more money for football than we'll likely ever have and that was true before their turn-a-rounds. He relied on a lot of promises for support but promises were broken, repeatedly. That's not unique to UNLV either. Happens routinely across the country.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Sorry, it's not going to happen.

Then go ahead and give up. Sorry, that's just not how I roll.

 

[Sam-I-am]

...
Guess what, we COULD be USC if we had USC money and USC support and USC’s tradition and USC’s boosters, USC’s alumni, USC’s guys in the pros, USC recruiting, USC’s conference, USC’s TV deal...

Probably need to move the campus to LA too.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Why should UNLV be held hostage by Fertitta money?

UNLV isn't being held hostage by Fertitta money. It would actually be great if that was true and there was money to pay the ransom. Heck... do it now and put that money to work.

 

[1994Rebel]

UNLV hasn't listened to the donors yet. Read Graney's columns and you see Fertitta even said it "Typical UNLV." They expect you to keep donating when they can't manage what you've already given. How do you take 5 million from Boyd and put it into the Lied Building instead of finishing the Football Complex?

 

[j. spilotro]

UNLV hasn't listened to the donors yet. Read Graney's columns and you see Fertitta even said it "Typical UNLV." They expect you to keep donating when they can't manage what you've already given. How do you take 5 million from Boyd and put it into the Lied Building instead of finishing the Football Complex?

That wouldn’t surprise me at all. The Fertittas know all to well about how this place runs.

 

[Sam-I-am]

UNLV hasn't listened to the donors yet. Read Graney's columns and you see Fertitta even said it "Typical UNLV." They expect you to keep donating when they can't manage what you've already given. How do you take 5 million from Boyd and put it into the Lied Building instead of finishing the Football Complex?

If that can be proven, then heads need to roll. Not only will that sort of crappolla kill the relationship with a specific donor but it will kill it with other donors too.

 

[RebNReno]

UNLV hasn't listened to the donors yet. Read Graney's columns and you see Fertitta even said it "Typical UNLV." They expect you to keep donating when they can't manage what you've already given. How do you take 5 million from Boyd and put it into the Lied Building instead of finishing the Football Complex?

Because UNLV can't accept a $5 million donation earmarked specifically for certain projects (TMC scoreboard, Leid, the softball stadium expansion) and then use the money for something entirely different. You wanna talk about pissing off a donor.

Also, I'm pretty sure Boyd doesn't want their $5 million to pay for a building that says Fertitta (Station Casinos) all over it.

 

[j. spilotro]

Because UNLV can't accept a $5 million donation earmarked specifically for certain projects (TMC scoreboard, Leid, the softball stadium expansion) and then use the money for something entirely different. You wanna talk about pissing off a donor.

Also, I'm pretty sure Boyd doesn't want their $5 million to pay for a building that says Fertitta (Station Casinos) all over it.

And I do think therein lies a lot of the problem. A lot of this money in this town but it’s not going to be used as goodwill. There aren’t any humanitarian offerings here. It’s about business.

These aren’t proud alum. They’re business people and the bottom line is the almighty dollar. Not what’s best for UNLV.

If they donate money, there’s gotta be something in there for them personally. Control, adverts, favors.... and UNLV isn't in the position to turn things down. Like hoops coaches that fake an interest in UNLV (hello Ben Howland), UNLV can be taken advantage of easily. They’re vulnerable, weak defenses.

 

[Sam-I-am]

...
Also, I'm pretty sure Boyd doesn't want their $5 million to pay for a building that says Fertitta (Station Casinos) all over it.

Then they are being absolute jerks. The Gaughans, Fertitta's, Thomas, Wynns, etc, gave millions for the renovation of Sam Boyd Stadium without batting an eye.

 

[j. spilotro]

Then they are being absolute jerks. The Gaughans, Fertitta's, Thomas, Wynns, etc, gave millions for the renovation of Sam Boyd Stadium without batting an eye.

There’s usually a hook with all these donors man.

It’s not about UNLV. It’s what they get out of it.

 

[RebelMan5000]

Then they are being absolute jerks. The Gaughans, Fertitta's, Thomas, Wynns, etc, gave millions for the renovation of Sam Boyd Stadium without batting an eye.

The Boyd's have their name on the football stadium, the law school, a dorm, and whatever this $5 million goes to in athletics. And while he's certainly not broke by any stretch of the imagination, he's not as rich as any of the other names you listed with the exception of Gaughan:

https://wallmine.com/people/28833/william-s-boyd

 

[Sam-I-am]

And I do think therein lies a lot of the problem. A lot of this money in this town but it’s not going to be used as goodwill. There aren’t any humanitarian offerings here. It’s about business.

These aren’t proud alum. They’re business people and the bottom line is the almighty dollar. Not what’s best for UNLV.

If they donate money, there’s gotta be something in there for them personally. Control, adverts, favors.... and UNLV isn't in the position to turn things down. Like hoops coaches that fake an interest in UNLV (hello Ben Howland), UNLV can be taken advantage of easily. They’re vulnerable, weak defenses.

Good points J. While I generally agree with you there are families like the Gaughans who gave to the Fertitta facility and they aren't exactly buddies right now. However, your point is well taken.
This is where great leadership by a President or Chancellor needs to come in. Know what the Tom & Nancy Osborne coost to build over a decade ago? $50 M. Know what it would have cost if the construction wasn't by alums Hawks Construction and Kiewit Construction Company? $75 M. Know what it would cost today? $125 M. Know how much Tom & Nancy Osborne donated into it? $0. Because that's how Nebraska Chancellor Perlman did it.
No we don't have a National Champion Coach in football to name facilites after but everything regarding Hoops should use Tark to the same extent.

 

[Sam-I-am]

The Boyd's have their name on the football stadium, the law school, a dorm, and whatever this $5 million goes to in athletics. And while he's certainly not broke by any stretch of the imagination, he's not as rich as any of the other names you listed with the exception of Gaughan:

https://wallmine.com/people/28833/william-s-boyd

All of those buildings also had donations from others who didn't get their names on it, incliuding, once again, the Gaughan family. If the Boyd's don't want any of their money to go to the Fertitta facility because of the name, then they are simply hypocrites.

 

[Sam-I-am]

There’s usually a hook with all these donors man.

It’s not about UNLV. It’s what they get out of it.

It's that way everywhere my friend. Just need strong and intelligent leadership from the top to do it the right way.

 

[RebNReno]

Well I view it differently- and I certainly wouldn't call Boyd a jerk for donating $5 million to specific UNLV Athletic projects that bear his name (i.e. the new scoreboard). All donors are different. Some people will donate millions "anonymously" while others want credit for their good deeds.

Boyd Gaming and Stations are the 2 biggest "off strip" companies in town. They compete for the same local dollars. I'm sure there's some rivalry there and each would like to let Las Vegas know they support UNLV.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Whenever a program gets to this point it's always interesting to watch a fan base break into camps.

Both presented with exactly the same evidence.

Yet coming to different conclusions.

In my opinion, the most damning argument against Sanchez:

It isn't the W/Ls.

It isn't the margin of these losses.

It's not the loss to SJSU.

It's not the fact that under him second half collapses have become the norm. This isn't debatable. Look up game logs. Its staggering the number of times other teams either score immediately after halftime or the Rebels fail to score on that opening drive of the half.

It isn't that this will be the 4th year in his tenure the defense will rank in the 100s out of 129 (ok year 2 it was high 80s) which for all intents and purposes would get most coaches fired.


All that seems like enough if you're being honest. But that isn't why I think it is more than fair for people to be questioning his ability to turn this around.

It's that Reno is sitting at 5-3 with a coach in his second year. I'm tired of hearing about all the obstacles UNLV faces.

Reno has garbage facilities.

Reno's stadium, while it is on campus is a dump.

Polian left the new guy a mess.

Reno doesn't have the allure of a multi multi multi million dollar stadium on the horizon.

Or a 30 million dollar football facility opening.

And yet...Here they are. Sitting at 5-4 on the cusp of a bowl. Faced with many of the same obstacles that UNLV can never seem to overcome.

If Reno plants their flag on our field to end the season, and that win gets them to, or solidifies a bowl invite. It's inexcusable.

 

[Sam-I-am]

Well I view it differently- and I certainly wouldn't call Boyd a jerk for donating $5 million to specific UNLV Athletic projects that bear his name (i.e. the new scoreboard). All donors are different. Some people will donate millions "anonymously" while others want credit for their good deeds.

Boyd Gaming and Stations are the 2 biggest "off strip" companies in town. They compete for the same local dollars. I'm sure there's some rivalry there and each would like to let Las Vegas know they support UNLV.

Because I appreciate your last post so much, let me be clear that my position is that anyone like the Boyds would be jerks IF they refused to donate to the Fertitta facility IF it was simply because of the name. I hope that isn't the case and without evidence to the contrary, I'll assume that it is not the case.
If it is the case, then they are hypocrites.

 

[RebelMan5000]

Because I appreciate your last post so much, let me be clear that my position is that anyone like the Boyds would be jerks IF they refused to donate to the Fertitta facility IF it was simply because of the name. I hope that isn't the case and without evidence to the contrary, I'll assume that it is not the case.
If it is the case, then they are hypocrites.

I also see the Boyd's (and Maloof's) at the football games. That, more than anything, may explain why they decided not to donate any more money to the football program unfortunately.

 

[j. spilotro]

Good points J. While I generally agree with you there are families like the Gaughans who gave to the Fertitta facility and they aren't exactly buddies right now. However, your point is well taken.
This is where great leadership by a President or Chancellor needs to come in. Know what the Tom & Nancy Osborne coost to build over a decade ago? $50 M. Know what it would have cost if the construction wasn't by alums Hawks Construction and Kiewit Construction Company? $75 M. Know what it would cost today? $125 M. Know how much Tom & Nancy Osborne donated into it? $0. Because that's how Nebraska Chancellor Perlman did it.
No we don't have a National Champion Coach in football to name facilites after but everything regarding Hoops should use Tark to the same extent.

But you outlined it - the donating needs to come from alums that want to better athletics, period. Their MO is going to be far more pure; it’s unity, it’s trying to make athletics better, period.

When it comes from businessmen... people that might not have the universities best interest at heart, people looking to get something out of it, people who have ulterior motives, it’s not the best thing in the world.

Now I don’t want to paint with a broad brush, either. I’m not saying all. But too much, eh, it’s just not ideal.

And when a university is in no position to turn it down from these entities? You’re hurting. You are handcuffed. They can call some shots.

 

[Deleted member 308]

All it would take for me to support Sanchez return is an honest assessment of where we are, where we have failed, where we have succeeded, and what needs to be done to go forward.

I don’t think coaches are ever prepared for the challenge they is UNLV. I bet if you brought back Sanford or Hauk they would find better success their second time around. I’m not sure a new coach will fare well as they won’t have a full appreciation of the situation untill it’s too late.

If a coach can have enough self awareness to separate their own mistakes and shortcoming from the challenges that UNLV presents, I would not object to giving them a second chance and let them hit the reset button. You just have to not fire them mid-season.

 

[drmontehorne_a_yahoo.com]

I really don’t think this comes down to “does he deserve another year” so much as it comes down to what can UNLV do when you take all the unique aspects into consideration.

Should he be fired or not doesn’t really matter, IMO. UNLV simply (at least as I know it) cannot do anything. Unless certain things are being kept very close to the vest.

Best thing to do is hope for recruiting to do well, team to finish respectably and without critical injuries and hope things start coming together next season.

Unfortunately I can't get there at this point.....

 

[unlv91]

All it would take for me to support Sanchez return is an honest assessment of where we are, where we have failed, where we have succeeded, and what needs to be done to go forward.

I don’t think coaches are ever prepared for the challenge they is UNLV. I bet if you brought back Sanford or Hauk they would find better success their second time around. I’m not sure a new coach will fare well as they won’t have a full appreciation of the situation untill it’s too late.

If a coach can have enough self awareness to separate their own mistakes and shortcoming from the challenges that UNLV presents, I would not object to giving them a second chance and let them hit the reset button. You just have to not fire them mid-season.

I have a question about TS schematically running the offense and defense which leaves me to question whether or not he has the mind set to even coach at all at the college division 1 level.

 

[rebelcuff]

DJ Durkin is available. Probably pretty cheap at this point too.

He would be a outstanding recruiter. Players are dying to play for him.

 

[j. spilotro]

All it would take for me to support Sanchez return is an honest assessment of where we are, where we have failed, where we have succeeded, and what needs to be done to go forward.

I don’t think coaches are ever prepared for the challenge they is UNLV. I bet if you brought back Sanford or Hauk they would find better success their second time around. I’m not sure a new coach will fare well as they won’t have a full appreciation of the situation untill it’s too late.

If a coach can have enough self awareness to separate their own mistakes and shortcoming from the challenges that UNLV presents, I would not object to giving them a second chance and let them hit the reset button. You just have to not fire them mid-season.

Well, we are winless in conference with a few games to go. Call in TMK, let her make the firing since she’s experienced with debacles.

 

[Doneoett]

Well, we are winless in conference with a few games to go. Call in TMK, let her make the firing since she’s experienced with debacles.

No way,she will probably hand out a 5 year contract extension with a 50 million dollar buy out.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I don't want to hear about money.
I don't want to hear about facilities.
I don't care about the new stadium.
I don't care about 'best recruiting classes in UNLV history'.

Facilities do one thing. Help in recruiting. That's it.

A facility doesn't lift the weights.
It doesn't evaluate talent.
It doesn't make game plans.
It doesn't call plays.

It is a building that helps attract recruits. That's it.

Want proof. Look no further than the Mendenhall Center. Great for recruiting. But it doesn't win games for you.

Reno's facilities were never much better than ours. Their stadium is a dump. They never got Fertitta type money I don't believe. So how were they better than us for so long?

Chris Ault. That's it. They had a better coach.

Don't tell me our recruiting is better and our coaching is better when the results on the field don't reflect that. Both of those can't be true when the results on the field look similar to Hauck. One of those things must be lacking.

I don't want to hear about injuries on defense hurting us this year. Save that nonsense. That falls on Sanchez. Want to know why? Because his 2016 (Year 2) class had 27 players. Only 10 of which were on defense. You had a defense that ranked 100 out of 129 in total defense year one, and your plan is to have a recruiting class skewed nearly double offensive to defensive players the next year? Wait it gets even worse. Of those ten, only two are still on the team. Those two players haven't seen the field. An entire class wasted. That kills your depth. Zero production. That falls squarely on his shoulders. Period.

What is even more troubling, Barney Cotton's offenses have averaged 30 points per game. Whatever you think of Cotton, 30 ppg is enough to win games.

What a waste.

Reno is probably going bowling this year. Year 2 of Norvell. Not year 4 or 5 or 6. Year 2. Polian left that program in all kinds of disarray. They have the same shit facilities they've always had. Somehow despite all their hurdles and obstacles they are on the cusp of bowl eligibility.

I was all in on Sanchez. Thought he did a great job surrounding himself with experienced coaches. I thought the 3,4,5 win progression showed steady growth. This year however, he looks like a guy way over his head. Blow out losses, second half collapses, 0-5 in conference. Lost to SJSU who had dropped their previous 17.

Week after week after week, we give up scores coming out of halftime.

Week after week teams set season, personal or school records vs our defense.

That's not hyperbole. Go look at teams averages heading into games. Then look what they did to UNLV's defense.

For years I posted on this board. For years, I was one of the more positive voices/advocates for the program. I never called for the ousting of any head coach. Never bashed players. Tried to remain positive even during the worst years.

But this 'deserves' another year talk is nonsense. He deserves what the results on the field say he deserves.

Personally if he can't beat Reno this year and reach 4 wins he should be fired. If there is enough money to buy him out you do it that day.

Reno is our rival. Reno has issues of their own. Reno's results should be the standard. Reno is probably bowling this year. We are not.

I hope Sanchez can turn it around. I'm rooting for him to do so.

But I don't want to hear he deserves anything based on what he's done off the field.

 

[dcut03]

I don't want to hear about money.
I don't want to hear about facilities.
I don't care about the new stadium.
I don't care about 'best recruiting classes in UNLV history'.

Facilities do one thing. Help in recruiting. That's it.

A facility doesn't lift the weights.
It doesn't evaluate talent.
It doesn't make game plans.
It doesn't call plays.

It is a building that helps attract recruits. That's it.

Want proof. Look no further than the Mendenhall Center. Great for recruiting. But it doesn't win games for you.

Reno's facilities were never much better than ours. Their stadium is a dump. They never got Fertitta type money I don't believe. So how were they better than us for so long?

Chris Ault. That's it. They had a better coach.

Don't tell me our recruiting is better and our coaching is better when the results on the field don't reflect that. Both of those can't be true when the results on the field look similar to Hauck. One of those things must be lacking.

I don't want to hear about injuries on defense hurting us this year. Save that nonsense. That falls on Sanchez. Want to know why? Because his 2016 (Year 2) class had 27 players. Only 10 of which were on defense. You had a defense that ranked 100 out of 129 in total defense year one, and your plan is to have a recruiting class skewed nearly double offensive to defensive players the next year? Wait it gets even worse. Of those ten, only two are still on the team. Those two players haven't seen the field. An entire class wasted. That kills your depth. Zero production. That falls squarely on his shoulders. Period.

What is even more troubling, Barney Cotton's offenses have averaged 30 points per game. Whatever you think of Cotton, 30 ppg is enough to win games.

What a waste.

Reno is probably going bowling this year. Year 2 of Norvell. Not year 4 or 5 or 6. Year 2. Polian left that program in all kinds of disarray. They have the same shit facilities they've always had. Somehow despite all their hurdles and obstacles they are on the cusp of bowl eligibility.

I was all in on Sanchez. Thought he did a great job surrounding himself with experienced coaches. I thought the 3,4,5 win progression showed steady growth. This year however, he looks like a guy way over his head. Blow out losses, second half collapses, 0-5 in conference. Lost to SJSU who had dropped their previous 17.

Week after week after week, we give up scores coming out of halftime.

Week after week teams set season, personal or school records vs our defense.

That's not hyperbole. Go look at teams averages heading into games. Then look what they did to UNLV's defense.

For years I posted on this board. For years, I was one of the more positive voices/advocates for the program. I never called for the ousting of any head coach. Never bashed players. Tried to remain positive even during the worst years.

But this 'deserves' another year talk is nonsense. He deserves what the results on the field say he deserves.

Personally if he can't beat Reno this year and reach 4 wins he should be fired. If there is enough money to buy him out you do it that day.

Reno is our rival. Reno has issues of their own. Reno's results should be the standard. Reno is probably bowling this year. We are not.

I hope Sanchez can turn it around. I'm rooting for him to do so.

But I don't want to hear he deserves anything based on what he's done off the field.

Just curious how much of the skew of recruits has to do with Cotton vs Baer. I know the HC is biggest factor in recruiting, but the schemes seem to be purely driven by the coordinators. I've have been happy with the recruits CTS and co have brought in, but I was always concerned about the lack of Defensive players vs the offensive players.

It's hard to argue with anything you've said.

Personally I think he gets another year just due to the financial reasons and the fact we are another year away from our facilities being ready. It'll make the job a little more desirable.

For some reason I like Skipper, and think another year for him to get some players in may make a difference.

Either way, I think the next coach will have some pretty good players to work with right off the bat. I don't think it will be such a huge rebuild as other coaches that have come into here.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Just curious how much of the skew of recruits has to do with Cotton vs Baer. I know the HC is biggest factor in recruiting, but the schemes seem to be purely driven by the coordinators. I've have been happy with the recruits CTS and co have brought in, but I was always concerned about the lack of Defensive players vs the offensive players.

It's hard to argue with anything you've said.

Personally I think he gets another year just due to the financial reasons and the fact we are another year away from our facilities being ready. It'll make the job a little more desirable.

For some reason I like Skipper, and think another year for him to get some players in may make a difference.

Either way, I think the next coach will have some pretty good players to work with right off the bat. I don't think it will be such a huge rebuild as other coaches that have come into here.

I think he stays. But its definitely not set in stone.

I thought early in the year there was promise on defense. As soon as conference play came it went out the window. Two injuries should not completely cripple a defense though.

This isn't a knock on any of the recruits. But name one impact defensive player he's brought in? (I'm asking that in a non hostile way) I can't name one guy that flashes every week regardless of the score. Maybe they don't fit the system. Maybe coordinators are failing to properly use guys. I don't know.

Can he turn this around? Yes of course. . But I now think the same thing of Sanchez as Dave Rice. You know what. Dave Rice was a horrible recruiter. Awful. *Gasp* But how can you say that! All those stars! Big Zimm! Dwayne Morgan! DJ!

There is more to recruiting than simply acquiring the most *'s next to guys names. It's finding guys who fit your system. It's getting character guys. It's getting guys who are coachable. It's addressing your teams/position and needs. It's all that.

For all his success putting *'s on the court, Rice failed to get consistent results. Failed to get the PG he needed. Sanchez has failed as well. For all the success acquiring talent on offense, he has failed to figure it out on defense. I don't know what the disconnect is, but it's not working.

Like I said there is an entire class/year on defense wasted. An entire year not providing depth or production.

Agree on the last part. Said it when he got hired, regardless of results, program will be in better shape than when he got the job.

 

[dcut03]

I think stars mean even less in football vs basketball. In most positions being physically and even mentally mature matters sooo much. Most males can get more out of their bodies in their college years vs HS years. I think many bigger time recruits in football are early bloomers that may have lower ceilings.

Also coaching and scheme plays a huge role. A large percentage of our better recruits are WRs, and we suck at throwing the ball.

Cotton is a good coordinator, but also predictable for the most part. Most of our damage these last few games have been when way behind. Even at Nebraska it seems like they would lose games towards the end of season due to predictability.

Defense seems to get more stops, definitely more negative yardage plays this season. Previously we would be easily get methodically taken down the field for scores. Flip side is that the offense is not sustaining drives and like to run tempo. That sucks for the defense.

The D isnt good by any means, but I think it is better.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I think stars mean even less in football vs basketball. In most positions being physically and even mentally mature matters sooo much. Most males can get more out of their bodies in their college years vs HS years. I think many bigger time recruits in football are early bloomers that may have lower ceilings.

Also coaching and scheme plays a huge role. A large percentage of our better recruits are WRs, and we suck at throwing the ball.

Cotton is a good coordinator, but also predictable for the most part. Most of our damage these last few games have been when way behind. Even at Nebraska it seems like they would lose games towards the end of season due to predictability.

Defense seems to get more stops, definitely more negative yardage plays this season. Previously we would be easily get methodically taken down the field for scores. Flip side is that the offense is not sustaining drives and like to run tempo. That sucks for the defense.

The D isnt good by any means, but I think it is better.

I think we sit at 13 sacks on the year. Best under Baer was 19 or 20. With three to go, they could get there, especially considering how often Reno and Hawaii throw. If they don't, get to QB, we might get run out of the building in both those games.

They rank in the 100s in 3 of 4 major stats. Rush defense, Pass defense, Total defense and scoring defense. The other we are in the 90's.

As for predictability...I don't know, Army's offense is predictable. You know they are going to run the ball. You're going to see FB dive 15/20 times a game. You know it's coming. Most can't stop it. Houston had the run and shoot and threw the ball 80% of the time. It wasn't some elaborate route tree either. Oregon under Chip Kelly basically ran 6 plays from multiple formations. It wasn't all that exotic really. I think it's more about execution, guy's fitting a system and talent.

We run the ball well. That means our QBs get a lot of good looks to throw against. QBs missing open guys (big issue) WRs with drops (been a problem this year) Oline breaking down giving up sacks (Way up this year) is execution in my opinion, not necessarily predictability.

I don't know. I'm pretty disenchanted with all of it.

I'm not suddenly going to stop supporting the team. I'm still going to every game. Still cheer. I still stay until the clock hits zeros regardless of the score.

I'm just done slapping lipstick on a pig. Or giving coaches a free pass. I'm not going to try to tell people that this is just a little bump in the road. That people need to trust the process.

He most likely gets another year because of budget constraints. If he does, I hope he gets us bowling. I'm just not all that hopeful based on what I'm seeing on the field.

 

[BornRebelRed]

Superior writing Bull. Totally agree..I was a big Sanchez guy. But we look like the same pitiful team as the day he took over.. Still in last place. We are the dumbest and least imaginative vanilla team I’ve seen in a while. For us to succeed, in my mind, we need to open it up on offense, kinda like BYU of the old days.. and then there is our defense.. always giving up the first down. We must lead the country in fewest punts recieved.. pitiful...

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Superior writing Bull. Totally agree..I was a big Sanchez guy. But we look like the same pitiful team as the day he took over.. Still in last place. We are the dumbest and least imaginative vanilla team I’ve seen in a while. For us to succeed, in my mind, we need to open it up on offense, kinda like BYU of the old days.. and then there is our defense.. always giving up the first down. We must lead the country in fewest punts recieved.. pitiful...

Honestly I don't think predictability on offense is an issue. I believe it's been inconsistent QB play. Ill timed drops by receivers and an offensive line that has struggled a bit in pass protection.

Cotton takes a lot of grief. Is he he perfect? No, but the offense has been the only bright spot the last four years

Think about it, he had to deal with shuffling Palandech, Stanton and Sneed one season. That same year our top 4 receivers missed considerable time. Offense still put up 30ppg.

The defense also rarely forced turnovers or 3 and outs. Offense has dealt with a long field.

I think he's an above average OC.

Defense is where predictably has kicked in.

Under Baer the defense was initially aggressive. Big play after big play, Baer got more conservative and then it became death by a thousand cuts. 5 yards, 7 yards, 12 yards, 7,yards 10, yards, 8 yards TD. I see the same thing under Skipper happening now.

They've either done a poor job evaluating talent or finding guys to fit their scheme....I don't know.

 

[willlevi]

Honestly I don't think predictability on offense is an issue. I believe it's been inconsistent QB play. Ill timed drops by receivers and an offensive line that has struggled a bit in pass protection.

Cotton takes a lot of grief. Is he he perfect? No, but the offense has been the only bright spot the last four years

Think about it, he had to deal with shuffling Palandech, Stanton and Sneed one season. That same year our top 4 receivers missed considerable time. Offense still put up 30ppg.

The defense also rarely forced turnovers or 3 and outs. Offense has dealt with a long field.

I think he's an above average OC.

Defense is where predictably has kicked in.

Under Baer the defense was initially aggressive. Big play after big play, Baer got more conservative and then it became death by a thousand cuts. 5 yards, 7 yards, 12 yards, 7,yards 10, yards, 8 yards TD. I see the same thing under Skipper happening now.

They've either done a poor job evaluating talent or finding guys to fit their scheme....I don't know.

Sneed is completing 63% with 2149 yards 17 td 7 int for Hauck at Montana. He also has 525 yards and 5 tds rushing for a 5-4 team.
Former walk-on Christian Lopez is 59% 1863 yards 14 tds 1 int. Also 222 yards 5 tds rushing in leading Northern Alabama to a 6-3 record in their first year in the FCS.
Another former Rebel, Kevin Thomson, is the starting quarterback for Sacramento State.
I would say Cotton has never had a bad group of quarterbacks to develop.
He produces a respectable point total but he struggles to put together a complete offense that can game manage wins. Stanton's run showed potential but I'm hoping for a more complete season of production on offense.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Sneed is completing 63% with 2149 yards 17 td 7 int for Hauck at Montana. He also has 525 yards and 5 tds rushing for a 5-4 team.
Former walk-on Christian Lopez is 59% 1863 yards 14 tds 1 int. Also 222 yards 5 tds rushing in leading Northern Alabama to a 6-3 record in their first year in the FCS.
Another former Rebel, Kevin Thomson, is the starting quarterback for Sacramento State.
I would say Cotton has never had a bad group of quarterbacks to develop.
He produces a respectable point total but he struggles to put together a complete offense that can game manage wins. Stanton's run showed potential but I'm hoping for a more complete season of production on offense.

Will I'm giving you two options here.

You can choose an offense that scores 30 points per game.

Or

A defense that allows 30 points per game.

Which would you want to rely on more? Your offense having to score 30+ points a game to win.

Or expecting your defense to be able to hold people under 30.

I take the 30 and would hope my defense could hold folks under that.

Add in this defense has not forced a ton of turnovers to give the offense a short field. The defense hasn't forced a lot of 3 and outs giving the offense a short field. And our return game offers little in providing good field position. Cotton is far from perfect.

But....

He doesn't miss wide open receivers. He doesn't drop passes. Both have plagued UNLV this year. Armani went 5 of 24 vs Arkansas State. He missed numerous open guys that day. When he did get the ball there, he had like 8 drops. That isn't a play calling issue that is an execution issue. The right calls were made. Guys didn't execute. It's been like that all season.

And before anybody says I'm a Cotton apologist or anything. I thought he called an awful game the 2nd half against Air Force last year after UNLV jumped out to a big lead. I thought he called a bad game against New Mexico this year...

Is the offense perfect. Nope. But if the defense was even in 70s instead of the 100s they probably go bowling last year.

 

[dcut03]

This year the offense hasn't been good. A huge portion of the production has been against big leads and soft defenses.

I agree there has been disappointing individual player play all over the place.

We also have a large veteran offensive line. Yet we don't see them dominating the line of scrimmage with run blocking or keeping the QB all that clean. Do we miss Garrison that much?

The defense isn't doing the offense any favors. No arguments there. But this offense isn't keeping pace when we do force a 3 and out. It has been the worst offense in the past 3 years and that's with really good skill position players and a veteran line. Predictability is a factor.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

This year the offense hasn't been good. A huge portion of the production has been against big leads and soft defenses.

I agree there has been disappointing individual player play all over the place.

We also have a large veteran offensive line. Yet we don't see them dominating the line of scrimmage with run blocking or keeping the QB all that clean. Do we miss Garrison that much?

The defense isn't doing the offense any favors. No arguments there. But this offense isn't keeping pace when we do force a 3 and out. It has been the worst offense in the past 3 years and that's with really good skill position players and a veteran line. Predictability is a factor.

You are correct. The offense hasn't been great.

The regression on the offensive line is troubling. Garrison factor? I don't know, by all accounts Justice is a solid O-Line coach.

I just don't think predictability is the issue. I think it's an execution issue.

I'll use the Arkansas State game as an example.

UNLV had a pretty fair mix run/pass. I believe there were 4 drops in that game. Armani missed at least 4 guys that were open that he didn't even give a chance to catch the ball. Let's assume the best. Let's say he converts all those passes. He would have been 13-24 not 5-24. Still not ideal, but how many of those misses/drops might have been first downs, or put us in 2nd and 2 where the playbook is wide open, instead of 2nd and 10 which limits the playbook some.

I'm not saying Cotton is without fault. He owns the results on offense. I just don't think its predictability.

Take Oregon under Kelly. It was not uncommon for Oregon to run the same exact play 2-3 times in a row. But pace, execution and talent allowed it. People think that offense was super diverse, it wasn't. It was fast and he had talented dudes that fit it. It was zone read, zone read, zone read, bubble screen, shot downfield. Rinse repeat.

I don't know. Offense has been above average in terms of scoring and yardage during his tenure. While not perfect, it's been enough to win games with any semblance of defense.

Of the three phases Offense/Defense/Special Teams. The offense has been the most consistent of an inconsistent bunch.

I think we both agree the offense isn't perfect, just disagree on the root cause of the problem.

For what it's worth, I wouldn't be surprised if there were further shake ups to the staff after this year, Cotton being one of them. Coaches on the hot seat tend to make changes, and Cotton is essentially the last guy left. (Cormier obviously, but not sure what firing a WR coach would accomplish)

 

[dcut03]

Position coaches may be to blame. Not a lot of great development noticed. I think Coach C has been good. At least he has proven himself over the years. Not his fault that dues are dropping balls, but they seem to run good routes, get open, and even block pretty well.

But still. Even with Armani out there. They load the box and spy the QB. It shouldn't take much to create wide open easy passing lanes when you have dedicated defenders that you can move out of the way. Rarely tested the seams. Again should be a lot of opportunity.

Trust me, I don't want to shit on Cotton either. But the truth is that we NEEDED to offense to produce and step it up this year. We knew the defense would be weak. They had a good start defensively too. It just hasn't happened with the offense. It has regressed. Sure the numbers maybe close to the same, but again more blowouts this year and softer defenses at the end of the game to pad stats. Not a lot of new faces out there either. Lack of execution? Sure. Scouted and can't adjust? You betcha.