ADVERTISEMENT

Dave Rice vs. The Zone

UNLVFansincebirth22

UNLVFansincebirth22

Lottery Pick
Jul 24, 2008
6,391
237
228
Las Vegas
Dave Rice: Befuddled by the zone defense since 2010.

It's literally UNREAL how absolutely BAFFLED by the zone defense Rice's teams have been. How every team doesn't play a basic 2-3, 3-2, or 1-2-2 zone against Rice teams for the entirety of the game against us is beyond me.

Rice's utter ineptitude against the zone would be funny if it weren't so frustratingly tragic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tarkaniancourt...nm
I agree. ... zimm kept sealing his man off down low but, they never attempted to lob a pass to him. Finally attacked the baseline with McCaw but, took them a long time to have any kind of plan to attack the zone. Hope Rice has a few rotations set up to attack zone because will see a lot of it. We have the personal to attack a zone, great passing bigs, outside shooters, one thing we are still missing is a quick PG who can take someone off the dribble and penetrate.

Can see how refs calling it. Alford took full advantage of the calls. Have to penetrate and put pressure on the D to stop you because if they touch you at all its a foul. Seagears settles way to much for the perimeter pass or 3 point shot. Drive drive and drive.

Otherwise they looked pretty good. Dominated the first 8 minutes. Came back in second half. With Zimm sick and Alford getting ever call, and ucla hitting like 20 straight free throws. REBELS did well considering. Hope this just motivates them more.
 
The zone offense is concerning. I think last night was absolutely awful because of that long armed 3-2. We couldn't swing it around the perimeter, and we couldn't flash the free throw line with that big there. They were lost, absolutely lost in the first half, but made adjustments and were better in the second.

I think it will improve against that this year, I hope at least.

I try and look at it, admittedly, through their eyes. They prob practiced against a few zones, but doing it in games is a big difference. Plus, imagine being in their shoes. They learned a bunch of stuff and they are playing UCLA on ESPN, stuff is bound to fall out of your head. That 3-2 with a big up top screwed them up big time as well.

I guess I am saying, that was awful, but I am not going to worry just yet.
 
rebelluver said:
I try and look at it, admittedly, through their eyes. They prob practiced against a few zones, but doing it in games is a big difference. Plus, imagine being in their shoes. They learned a bunch of stuff and they are playing UCLA on ESPN, stuff is bound to fall out of your head. That 3-2 with a big up top screwed them up big time as well.

I guess I am saying, that was awful, but I am not going to worry just yet.
Click to expand...


Yeah, but with all their struggles in the Dave Rice era against the zone, my question is why don't they JUST practice primarily against the zone until it's not a concern that things being taught will "fall out of their head", you know?

It's so frustrating to see us struggle CONSTANTLY against the most basic of zone defenses.
 
I wonder why Kansas would pick it apart and we look baffled against it. Are Kansas' players more intelligent than ours? Maybe. Is the coaching staff better? Clearly. I don't know why CDR doesn't use his recruiting prowess to land one of the best Zone busters in the business. Ostensibly, he lands top players if the NBA is any indication. Why not use that same talent to hire the best offensive mind against the zone available? Doesn't seem like rocket science to me.

Unfortunately, this may eventually cost him his job. I hope not. I really like Dave and want him to succeed. But I would rather not be embarrassed by that total a-hole Steve Alford or his douchetard son all because of a simple zone. They looked like they never played basketball before simply because Stevie threw a little zone their way. PATHETIC.
 
UNLVFansincebirth22 said:
Yeah, but with all their struggles in the Dave Rice era against the zone, my question is why don't they JUST practice primarily against the zone until it's not a concern that things being taught will "fall out of their head", you know?

It's so frustrating to see us struggle CONSTANTLY against the most basic of zone defenses.
Click to expand...

I hear you. Obviously they can't only practice against zone, but I get your point. I just think they probably spent plenty of time already, but it is very different doing it in a game.

Plus, the fact it was 3-2 messed them up as well. You have to attack a 3-2, 2-3, 1-2-2, etc all differently.

If it doesn't improve then I will worry. I think part of the problem is he has so many new players every year he is always starting fresh.
 
rebelluver said:
I hear you. Obviously they can't only practice against zone, but I get your point. I just think they probably spent plenty of time already, but it is very different doing it in a game.

Plus, the fact it was 3-2 messed them up as well. You have to attack a 3-2, 2-3, 1-2-2, etc all differently.

If it doesn't improve then I will worry. I think part of the problem is he has so many new players every year he is always starting fresh.
Click to expand...
I thought we got length in our players to also play zone ?
 
When UCLA went into the zone the Rebels looked like this they were looking at a pink Unicorn. Amazed, befuddled, confused and not a clue on what to do. This thread and this topic has been discussed way too many times over the past 4 years and here we are again. Every excuse from not having a true PG to not having quality bigs has been used. Well every excuse has been eliminated and some of them several times and yet here we are again. So let's just call it for what it is: very very bad coaching. Enough said.
 
  • Like
Reactions: UNLVFansincebirth22
I never said any of those excuses. It was the worst performance against a zone I have ever seen. Still, it was the first time we saw a 3-2 with a brand new team.
 
Hard to understand why after 5 years it looks as though no progress has been made, our inability to crack a zone and terrible free throw shooting will cost us some games this year
 
Dirty Vegas said:
Hard to understand why after 5 years it looks as though no progress has been made, our inability to crack a zone and terrible free throw shooting will cost us some games this year
Click to expand...
after 5 years, we still don't have a good PG. that is a problem. after 5 years, we have a handful of new players. that is a problem. CDR for some reason or another, can scream and yell at players to not force sh!t up and they still do. that is a problem too. i thought he was going to blow up when JS forced another 3 (forget which game).
watch how the coaches respond to some of the stupidity that happens. it's telling. i do think the bad shots are way way less than ever.

FT - are pure mental and i still can't remember if we have EVER had a clutch FT shooting team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RebelScrub and Dirty Vegas
I am trying to start over and leave the first four years in the past. I think Rice has learned some lessons from the mistakes he made in the past.

Therefore, even though that performance was terrible, in my eyes it was in the fourth game of the first season. Not 4 years and 3 games into the fifth.

I think that is a fair way to look at it, and I think that you will see some improvement overall in this season.

I am not trying to make excuses, you guys are right for the most part about what we have seen this season. Just try and look at it as a fresh start.
 
Let's use an analogy here.

You're at work. You get pretty good yearly reviews, except each consecutive year you get dinged on one or two things. The next year comes, you get warned again. The year after, you still haven't been able to to your job against that thing. You get written up at the end of your 3rd year because you couldn't perform your job. 4th year comes and your boss tells you if you don't start performing to the standard in which the job needs and is expected...someone else can.

DR: Has done a really good job, especially the first 2 yeasr when he had experienced, seasoned players he didn't recruit. They won a bunch of games, and the fan base was high, and the recruiting was amazing having the #1 overall pick coming in the future. They even beat the #1 team in all the land on a semi-neutral court. Conference play comes and team struggles a bit. The next season, UNLV struggles mightily against teams like Air Force who PLAY ZONE. No answer since. No MWC championship. Each year has gotten worse than the last, even though the 'potential' is there. It's a broken record.
 
Doubleyew said:
Let's use an analogy here.

You're at work. You get pretty good yearly reviews, except each consecutive year you get dinged on one or two things. The next year comes, you get warned again. The year after, you still haven't been able to to your job against that thing. You get written up at the end of your 3rd year because you couldn't perform your job. 4th year comes and your boss tells you if you don't start performing to the standard in which the job needs and is expected...someone else can.

DR: Has done a really good job, especially the first 2 yeasr when he had experienced, seasoned players he didn't recruit. They won a bunch of games, and the fan base was high, and the recruiting was amazing having the #1 overall pick coming in the future. They even beat the #1 team in all the land on a semi-neutral court. Conference play comes and team struggles a bit. The next season, UNLV struggles mightily against teams like Air Force who PLAY ZONE. No answer since. No MWC championship. Each year has gotten worse than the last, even though the 'potential' is there. It's a broken record.
Click to expand...

I understand, but it was only 4 games in so lets judge him after the year is out. He was given until the end of the year to improve, lets give him until then.
 
rebelluver said:
Because we like playing man to man? Seems simple enough.
Click to expand...
I said " also play Zone" . I realize that we are a man to man team . We were saying last year how the zone was a great change of pace defense , although we have always preferred man to man. Don't be persnickety now. We liked the idea of the zone from Syracuse and said their length allowed them to zone so well
 
rebelfan1969 said:
I said " also play Zone" . I realize that we are a man to man team . We were saying last year how the zone was a great change of pace defense , although we have always preferred man to man. Don't be persnickety now. We liked the idea of the zone from Syracuse and said their length allowed them to zone so well
Click to expand...

I sincerly apologize if it came out that way, I didn't mean for it to, I am pretty bad about that.

I just try and play devil's advocate. As I mentioned above, I pretty much agree with your guys' concern. I am trying to stay positive because it makes the season go by with less pain, and if Dave doesn't get it done this year I think as a program we are in trouble.
 
Bullmastiff 1 said:
http://www.insidethehall.com/

Link to IU site. Interesting in the article they brought up UNLV carving up IU when they switched to the zone. One game doesn't make a trend, but a good sign nonetheless.
Click to expand...
I'd have to watch it again, but I think they only went zone a few plays and UNLV did dissect it. One of them was a Ben to a cutting McCaw layup, I believe.

The 3-2 with a lengthy guy up top that UCLA ran was more unorthodox. I have a feeling UNLV might see that vs SDSU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bullmastiff 1
Bullmastiff 1 said:
http://www.insidethehall.com/

Link to IU site. Interesting in the article they brought up UNLV carving up IU when they switched to the zone. One game doesn't make a trend, but a good sign nonetheless.
Click to expand...
Interesting read. Nowhere does it really give UNLV much credit for the win, but essentially calls this loss embarassing. The article mentions that losing to Wake Forest as a lost chance to have a quality win but no mention of the Rebels in the same sentence.

I have two things to take away from it. 1st, I think that the Rebels have fallen farther in the eyes of the nation than I thought. 2nd, those Indiana fans don't seem to realize that they were beat wire-to-wire and that UNLV was clearly the better team for about 39 mins and the final score could easily have been more "embarrassing."

What I love is a top 25 win where we could have easily played better. What worries me is that past performance could also predict future results (i.e. last year vs Arizona).
 
  • Like
Reactions: rebelfan1969
j. spilotro said:
I'd have to watch it again, but I think they only went zone a few plays and UNLV did dissect it. One of them was a Ben to a cutting McCaw layup, I believe.

The 3-2 with a lengthy guy up top that UCLA ran was more unorthodox. I have a feeling UNLV might see that vs SDSU.
Click to expand...
I agree.

IU didn't run a ton of zone. I think UNLV went on a mini run when they did and IU backed out of it pretty quick.

I'll see if I can find it but I could have sworn Mike Grimala wrote an article that said UNLV's struggles vs zone defense were actually a little overblown. They actually shot at a higher % and committed fewer turnovers vs zone. The issue was pace of play/rythym. They took far fewer shots, which is essentially the purpose of the zone. I could be wrong but I thought I read something to that effect.

Zone defense in college basketball is like the wishbone and flexbone option offenses in college football. Everybody knows what Army, Navy and Air Force are going to run. Yet year after year all three are in the 10 ten in rushing. You can know its coming, but if its executed right its tough to stop. Same with zone defense. There is a coach at Syracuse that has had pretty good success running his matchup zone for the last quarter century or so. There have been a lot of good coaches in the Big East and now ACC who's teams still struggle against that zone after all these years.

This was not me advocating for Rice as a great coach or bad coach. Just a different way to look at it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bcvegaspt
I suppose it depends on how the season plays out for us. If we fail in conference it certainly wouldn't have been a good win. I agree that we have fallen in the eyes of the nation. But IU is a blueblood organization. They are an elite program and clearly don't see us as one. It was nice to win despite trying to give it away at the end.
 
rebelluver said:
I sincerly apologize if it came out that way, I didn't mean for it to, I am pretty bad about that.

I just try and play devil's advocate. As I mentioned above, I pretty much agree with your guys' concern. I am trying to stay positive because it makes the season go by with less pain, and if Dave doesn't get it done this year I think as a program we are in trouble.
Click to expand...
No prob.I really like your posts. Keep em coming
 
  • Like
Reactions: rebelluver
UNLV played very well today, and it was a hell of a game to watch. As far as zone goes, I don't think IU has really practiced it much cause you could tell they were out of their element and not nearly as big as UCLA was. THey backed out of the zone almost immediately after a couple possessions. I said it in another thread though, Zone slows the game down, gives defense a chance to breathe. IU is an up and down team like UNLV and they wanted to run, but fell short and missed their free throws like we missed ours at UCLA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bullmastiff 1
We've out recruited IU the last couple of years We beat IU with one of our best players sick. It took some incrediblely lucky events to keep the game close. Attention IU fans you should feel lucky that the game was this close. We have a young team that continues to improve. (UCLA I hope we run into you in the tournament)Overall I gave us C+. Foul shooting, PG play, Making the right passes against the zone, shot selection and finishing are all parts of the game that need drastic improvement. Defense and the press are improving.
Oregon will be another game that we can build our "national brand" with. That ASU game is looking tougher than we first thought.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rebyellion
The Oregon game I am looking forward to as a good chance for a W. Arizona might just wipe the floor with us after last year.

Pretty cool to say we are playing our C game and have a victory over #13 and a 2 point defeat to UCLA as our only loss.

Team has potential. Love what Rice did as far as what players he brought in this year. Smart bringing over experienced guards like Seagers and Nwamu.
 
WE have worked primarily on man pressure defense in practice. Rice knows what to do, it's just a matter of allocating the time in practice to what is most important. Early on Rice wanted them to have the intestinal fortitude to play man pressure for 40 minutes (long term goal for a deep team). They will practice zones (defense and offense) when they get back to Vegas as it obviously was our biggest weakness exposed in Maui. I think Oregon plays a lot of zone and beat us with it the last time they were in Vegas so lets see how effective coaching is fast forwarding 8 days from now. Dana Altman will use exactly what beat us the last loss we had. Crean on the other hand was just trying to stick to his philosophy and get them experience in what style he thinks we will win the big 10 conference starting off with 3 freshman in their rotation.

Altman will want a win he comes to Vegas.

I know one thing. A healthy Zimm in the middle of a zone to make the right pass will make a huge difference. You can tell they did not practice against a 3-2 at all. it is actually really easy to beat with cuts along the baseline, you just have to get behind a 3-2 to beat it.
 
Also with the ticky tacky hand checking this year and the quick whistles. Those teams that aren't necessarily deep are going to be forced to run zone. It also is advantages for the shortened shot clock as it takes more time to execute against a zone. Bottom line, we are going to see a lot zone this year, we need to practice Zones ASAP and get much better. It is only the 4th game where we were exposed, so we have time to get better. If this is still and issue in 3 weeks from now than yes coaching has failed. CDR has time to rectify himself being outcoached by Alford. Beat Altman and his coaching resume improves. Lets see if the staff comes up with a better game plan this time around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

L

Week 2 G5 Notes

Replies
14
Views
1K
Rebel Football
Masked_rebel
M
j. spilotro

Some observations vs FSU

Replies
9
Views
1K
Rebel Confidential
Bullmastiff 1
Bullmastiff 1
L

2025 Football Opponents

Replies
4
Views
1K
Rebel Football
1Tripoda
1Tripoda
dcut03

Fans aren't the problem

Replies
11
Views
1K
Rebel Confidential
Boston Rebel 2
Boston Rebel 2
j. spilotro

If you are an opposing coach …

Replies
14
Views
712
Rebel Confidential
j. spilotro
j. spilotro
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back