CMA is the Dave Rice of UNLV Football
- Thread starter Knight Rebel702
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You are really going to compare a 6-23 record, no pros with wins over weaklings to a 98-60 something record with wins over undefeateds, #1’s, several other rankeds, highest post Tark seeding, third winningest in UNLV history, several NBA guys, exciting packed matchups and post season appearances?
A seriously bad take when you are taking the worst of the worst of a historically bad program and comparing it to the 3rd winningest of a storied program. And one is making 3x of the other … the difference in value isn’t even remotely close.
No halftime adjustments - especially those adjustments that castrated a seasoned, ranked Arizona squad that had no answers for his 2nd half adjustments. And that UNC wasn’t prepared for UNLV’s game plan …
My question why is he considered a great recruiter? Is that nationally or MWC recruiting?
Was Rice great coach no, but support he had from administration, not, I thought after ASU game he coached not to lose, and not getting PG killed him, that said Arroyo cant wear Rice jock strap, there's no excitement at all, he can't motivate, just can't coach, he won 6 games. After Reno loss will end season with 7 in row, he stinks.
Was Rice great coach no, but support he had from administration, not, I thought after ASU game he coached not to lose, and not getting PG killed him, that said Arroyo cant wear Rice jock strap, there's no excitement at all, he can't motivate, just can't coach, he won 6 games. After Reno loss will end season with 7 in row, he stinks.
Beggining of the year I thought 5-7 and beat Reno should be enough to retain him.
After last night....I'm not so sure...
Pretty sure a majority of board probably thinks he should be fired. I am leaning towards that. (Lose to Reno here's the door)
However that move has consequences.
1) Buyout
2) Transfers, and there will be a ton unless UNLV were to make a splash hire. Even then there will be some.
I think regardless of Reno result he'll be retained solely because of money.
That Hawaii loss is pretty inexcusable.
After last night....I'm not so sure...
Pretty sure a majority of board probably thinks he should be fired. I am leaning towards that. (Lose to Reno here's the door)
However that move has consequences.
1) Buyout
2) Transfers, and there will be a ton unless UNLV were to make a splash hire. Even then there will be some.
I think regardless of Reno result he'll be retained solely because of money.
That Hawaii loss is pretty inexcusable.
Because he had UNLV's two highest ranked recruiting classes nationally. Sanchez never reached above 80-90 (I think) nationally. Arroyo had a top 65 class I believe. Which may not sound great but consider that Boise at its peak was recruiting in the 40s or 50s nationally.
He was also viewed as a solid recruiter at previous coaching stops.
When you say no excitement no motivation, I don't know. Should you have to motivate a person to do something they supposedly love to do? Either they do or they do not want to play. Not to sound snarky but if their guy is better than our guy I can give the greatest speech of all time and that DT is still going to whip our OG more times than not. Motivational speeches are great in movies...That's about it.
We aren't in the lockeroom room. Have you actually heard what he says? He may not be a great motivator. Or he may give Knute Rockne type speeches. I don't know, I'm not in the lockeroom room. However maybe he's not the problem in that area, maybe where he's failing in recruiting is finding guys that love the game. Sure dude runs a 4.5 40 and was a 4 star..Problem is dude only feels like turning it on when he wants. In that regard he may be similiar to Rice. He could recognize and recruit talent, but struggled finding character/team guys. Guys that were about the front not the back of the jersey. I don't know.
I'm not completely discounting a coaches ability to motivate a team, just think it's a bit overrated. If those players couldn't motivate themselves last night with bowl eligibility on the line, no run through a brick wall speech was going to make them do it.
I keep going back and forth with it … you can’t change just to change, you’d need a decent hire and to me that means HC experience and a track record.
His record flat out sucks. He’s 0-10 in one score games. That’s fireable.
But I do like the general makeup of the team. And I liked many things I saw this year, things that are definite “improvements”. And if he’s canned, we will lose some guys … but even if he stays, we will lose some guys too, that’s the way the game is right now. And I wouldn’t be surprised to see Doug leave, either.
But I do worry about the slippery slope of staying with him too long because I don’t know that he’s shown enough. Maybe? I mean, he had no HC experience and he’s learning as he goes. You don’t become a seasoned head coach in a couple of seasons. And I really don’t want to go the route of “not enough money, let’s hire the WR coach from Pawtucket State”.
So there are a lot of factors really … drop the Reno game, get out. Win it, maybe still get out. I’m not sure.
But I think I’m leaning towards bite the bullet and see what he does next year. But it’s 830 pm right now, at 9pm, I might have a different answer, which would be the same answer I had at 8 pm.
Having to drum up Motivation is one of the most overrated things in sports …
I agree and share the same feelings as you. I keep going back and forth.
My frustrations lie with the offense. It doesn’t sit well with me that they struggle as bad as they do. For all that CMA talks about the QB’s and offense, it just doesn’t seem fluid or consistent on that side of the ball. I get the feeling that we would be so much better if we simplified the offense.
I will say, if they let him go, and then turnaround and hire someone relative to the KK hire in basketball (very underwhelming at the time), then I will be very very disappointed.
If there isn’t a home run out there, then I’m inclined to give this one more year. From all indications, next years schedule is still set up for success, especially if we get some key pieces to stay.
I agree about the offense to an extent. Arroyo definitely deserves some of the blame.
However, the sheer number of drops, I'm not talking 50/50 balls or guys not hauling in tough catches, I'm talking 3 yards of separation, dudes open across the middle ball hits him in the numbers drops, have been really disconcerting and problematic.
I agree offense hasn't really flourished under Arroyo considering the talent on paper. But drops and fumbles after big catches have absolutely killed this offense.
1st and 10 5 yard run. Playbook wide open.
1st and 10 dropped pass, now 2nd and 10 playbook shrinks.
I'd be willing to bet there have been no less than 10-12 dropped passes that would have converted to first downs.
I'll listen to rants about play calling. There's obviously been some issues, but players failing to execute has been just as bad.
Coach calls a play, player is open, the call was absolutely correct. Player drops ball, that's not on the coach. We have a habit as fans (myself included) to look at the sum (end of game result) and say stupid play calling! Forgetting small moments within the game where players failed to execute which directly impacts the next play call.
They beat Reno, get to 5-7 it's about where I thought they would be, but man it would still feel really disappointing after a 4-1 start.
I'm not happy with another year of sub .500 football.
I'm definitely not happy with how the season has played out.
However, players grow/get better. So do coaches. In no way am I comparing Bill Belichick to anybody, but he was hardly viewed as the genius he is now when he was with the Browns.
Like players, coaches can get better as well.
We are getting to or maybe in that fire/not fire point with Arroyo. Do you can him now? Maybe...Don't know. For all the frustration, if you told people they would finish 5-7 and beat Reno it's about where most would expect to be or say was the minimum they would accept to give him another year.
Like last year there are a number of one score losses. SDSU, CAL, Fresno and Hawaii. (Hawaii loss is pretty unforgivable to be honest). You flip one of those you are fighting for bowl eligibility. Two of them it's been a pretty good season, three of them and it's rare air for UNLV, all of them and this team is flirting with a 9 win season and possible conference title.
Team is close.
And that's the conundrum. You bring him back and they take a step forward and get to bowl eligibility it's the right move. You bring him back and it's the same crap and they get to only 5 wins it's another wasted year (in a long history of wasted years).
It's a tougher call than most think.
Just for the record Dave is the last coach to take UNLV to the NCAA Tournament. Bobby Hauck is the last coach to take us to a bowl game. With limited resources. Both are friends of mine.
There is certainly a lot to consider and I hope the AD is considering every option right now. I’ll wait until Saturday to make my final judgment. 5-7 with a RED cannon is what I expected preseason but seeing how bad the MWC is now I expected more. I think you can make the “we were really close to winning” argument at 5-7. But at 4-8 and ending the season with loses to 2 of the worst teams in the entire country? I can’t make an argument that we’re close to anything good. In fact at that point I could make an argument that we’re worse now then we were 3 years ago with Sanchez.
If he’s willing, I’d sign him to a two-year extension but restructure the buyout so that it drops after week 10 of next season. ADs are allowed to state that a football coach isn’t going to be retained before the end of a football season without it causing the black eye that CDR’s removal caused.
While I see his likelihood for success as being very poor, I’d be inclined to give him a year 4 no matter how the Reno game turns out.
On the other hand, if we lose to Reno and he’s canned, I’ll be very relieved that we have moved on from him.
While I see his likelihood for success as being very poor, I’d be inclined to give him a year 4 no matter how the Reno game turns out.
On the other hand, if we lose to Reno and he’s canned, I’ll be very relieved that we have moved on from him.
beat Reno, 5-7, you have to look at the whole season and it would be tough to fire him.
5-7 is tied for the second best record in UNLV football in the past 30 years and it still has only happen a handful of times.
Coming off to a hot start makes this tough. Very dissapointing way to finish the year.
I too generally like the players and how this team is getting built. I am very disappointed in the offense overall. I agree drops have killed us and WR depth is supposed to be a strength. But the passing game never feels fluid or easy. Rarely to we have an easy pitch and catch outside of a screen pass. Teams can load up the box to stop the run, and we can't make them pay for it.
All that being said, without someone like a Patterson lined up and ready to go( will never happen IMO) it will be tough to fire Arroyo. I like the incentrive based extension idea.
Also I think the lame duck coach argument is a bit overblown. Especially now when it is so easy and common to transfer. The counter arguement that he can't recruit because he may not be here doesn't matter nearly as much as it used to. The 4 year plan is kind of a thing of the past. So I'm not against doing nothing. He does still have 2 years on his contract after this season. That's plenty IMO.
5-7 is tied for the second best record in UNLV football in the past 30 years and it still has only happen a handful of times.
Coming off to a hot start makes this tough. Very dissapointing way to finish the year.
I too generally like the players and how this team is getting built. I am very disappointed in the offense overall. I agree drops have killed us and WR depth is supposed to be a strength. But the passing game never feels fluid or easy. Rarely to we have an easy pitch and catch outside of a screen pass. Teams can load up the box to stop the run, and we can't make them pay for it.
All that being said, without someone like a Patterson lined up and ready to go( will never happen IMO) it will be tough to fire Arroyo. I like the incentrive based extension idea.
Also I think the lame duck coach argument is a bit overblown. Especially now when it is so easy and common to transfer. The counter arguement that he can't recruit because he may not be here doesn't matter nearly as much as it used to. The 4 year plan is kind of a thing of the past. So I'm not against doing nothing. He does still have 2 years on his contract after this season. That's plenty IMO.
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Good point about the transfers having an impact on needing more years. I hadn’t thought of that angle. Utilization of the portal and expecting to lose players regularly anyway lessens the argument.
UNLV has more power than he does. If/when he demands or asks for an extension … say no. Is he going to quit and leave money on the table? He’s not a hot commodity. Puts a huge amount of pressure on him next year. But you are making 1.5M per year, there SHOULD be pressure to deliver results instead of excuses.
Still... Hugely disappointing after being 4-1 & bowl bound. Seat is warming up...
This is what I meant. Ignore my post above. Haha
You make a VERY good point about transfers making a coach's remaining duration less relevant.
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