ARIZONA BIGGEST GAME OF RICES CAREER

[tarkaniancourt...nm]

1. Will players respond?

2. Will adjustments be made?

3. Will we have to win the MWC tourney if we lose.

4. Will this be Rices last season.

This game could save the season and possibly DRs job or it could turn even nastier.

A lot of questions. All Rebel fans will be cheering for a win. Go Rebels!

 

[Doubleyew]

1. No, because see #2
2. No, because adjustments haven't been in the vocabulary of Rice's Dictionary in 5 years now.
3. Not necessarily, cause the rest of the MW is awful this year as well. Top 2 will make it in.
4. TBD. I'm tired of hearing the budget argument after what seems like 10 years now. If they can pony up $1m for Kruger a year, they can get 2 Dave Rices.
I honestly dont know if I'll watch the game.

UNLV is +12 by the way.

 

[unlv91]

Not a chance the Rebels win. We will get a new coach at the end of the year at the very least imo

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

1) This is as much on the players as it is Dave Rice and his staff. Either they want to play hard or they don't.

2) What adjustments? To the starting lineup? To the offense? To playing time?

3) If we finish 20+ wins we most likely make tournament. Team is on pace for 20-24 wins.

4) We better hope not because it means we missed the tournament or got bounced in the first round.

 

[rebelluver]

If we win the game will most of the people here apologize and admit they overreacted?

If we lose a close game will you guys say if we had a guy who could coach we would have won easily?

Let's face it. It is a game at Arizona who we upset last year, and it will be very very difficult to win. A loss will tell us absolutely nothing and has nothing to do with his career.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

If we win the game will most of the people here apologize and admit they overreacted?

If we lose a close game will you guys say if we had a guy who could coach we would have won easily?

Let's face it. It is a game at Arizona who we upset last year, and it will be very very difficult to win. A loss will tell us absolutely nothing and has nothing to do with his career.

Players win coaches lose. You rarely if ever go on message boards after a win and see people post things like 'Coach did a great job switching from man to zone' Or 'brilliant job managing guys in foul trouble' You do read great dunk by this guy, or so and so took over the game.

ASU loss was ugly, there is no denying that. Some of that loss falls on Dave, some of it falls on our guys not converting on the offensive end with good looks, and getting trashed on the boards.

Maybe Dave didn't make needed adjustments. But our 4* guys were held in check on the offensive side against a team that ran primarily man defense the entire night.

It took more than just poor coaching to play a half of basketball that bad.

 

[tarkaniancourt...nm]

What adjustments? To the starting lineup? To the offense? To playing time?

All the above. Change up the defense. Maybe a little match-up zone or zone. Maybe a suprise half court trap. ASU got into a nice flow. They spread unlv out and attacked. We did nothing. Maybe if you can't get your guards to box out!! If they dont, bring in your walkons! How about instead of everyone trying to block the shot, one of your big guys gets his butt on somebody. How about after a time out we see some screens set low and throw it down low!!!

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

All the above. Change up the defense. Maybe a little match-up zone or zone. Maybe a suprise half court trap. ASU got into a nice flow. They spread unlv out and attacked. We did nothing. Maybe if you can't get your guards to box out!! If they dont, bring in your walkons! How about instead of everyone trying to block the shot, one of your big guys gets his butt on somebody. How about after a time out we see some screens set low and throw it down low!!!

Ok playing Devils Advocate here but...

Carter saw some looks in the post and didn't convert.
As much as I like Zimm's game he still has to get physically stronger. He gets moved off the low block a little to easy at this point. I will say, I thought they should have kept feeding the ball to the post more. But our 4* 7 footer did not have a great game.

I agree way to many guys going for the shot block. What if Rice has told these guys this. What if maybe the bigger problem is we have some guys with low basketball IQ or poor feel for the game.

Again I agree they trashed our full court press. Now I am not saying you in particular, but there were a number of people clamoring for the glory days of Rebel Basketball where we pressed and beat teams down with aggressive man to man defense. Sometimes it gets beat. Now people are complaining about not showing some zone. Ok thats fine, maybe we should throw some zone in there. Want to bet if he had thrown some zone looks at ASU and still lost, there wouldn't have been the same people crying 'WHY IS THAT IDIOT RICE USING ZONE!!! WE ARE A MAN TO MAN TEAM!!! UP TEMPO!!! THAT IS NOT REBEL BASKETBALL' What's the old saying about making all the people happy all the time?

As far as boxing out with the guards. Again I agree, but see above. Part of running and playing up tempo is sometimes releasing a guard early.

As for sitting guys for effort or decision making. He did, he sat Jerome late in the game. Second time he has done it this year. I think we may see it even more with other guys as the season wears on.


I am not a Rice apologist. He bares some of the blame. But players did not convert shots (and many of them were good looks) or work hard enough on the glass to win that game. They should take some of the blame as well.

 

[rebelluver]

Agree with the part about the guards not boxing out. It doesn't only apply to them though. Sitting there flabbergasted trying to figure out what was going on with these offensive rebounds, I noticed a few times where one guy went after the defensive board and everyone else was leaving early trying to run. They can get caught in between at times.

They should improve with that as the season goes on. When you have one guy down there that is no good. It has to bounce the correct way to get the rebound.

 

[YellowSpinE]

Think the UNC game was the biggest game for Rice.

Think the guys played hard. Hats off for running to the end.

Rice's system still sucks.

 

[RebtillDeath]

And it will continue to suck

 

[TarkisGod]

Rice's system still sucks.

And it will continue to suck

And this board will continue to be the home of whiners and bitchers.

Let's go back, say five years...The overwhelming sentiment here was that Lon Kruger was unable to recruit 4- and 5-star players. That he had "reached his ceiling" as a coach. You know, Lon Kruger, the coach of the #3 Oklahoma Sooners.

Undoubtedly all of you Rice-haters will loudly protest that you were not the ones clamoring for the ouster of Kruger. But someone was saying it. I'll bet a lot of you were the same one's now demanding the head of Dave Rice.

Anyone who can't see that DR is a better coach overall than he was in his first season (the UNC game, notwithstanding) is delusional.

He will ultimately figure it out, and when he does, it will most likely be for another team, because impatient supporters believe that nothing short of the immediate resurrection of Tark will do...

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

And this board will continue to be the home of whiners and bitchers.

Let's go back, say five years...The overwhelming sentiment here was that Lon Kruger was unable to recruit 4- and 5-star players. That he had "reached his ceiling" as a coach. You know, Lon Kruger, the coach of the #3 Oklahoma Sooners.

Undoubtedly all of you Rice-haters will loudly protest that you were not the ones clamoring for the ouster of Kruger. But someone was saying it. I'll bet a lot of you were the same one's now demanding the head of Dave Rice.

Anyone who can't see that DR is a better coach overall than he was in his first season (the UNC game, notwithstanding) is delusional.

He will ultimately figure it out, and when he does, it will most likely be for another team, because impatient supporters believe that nothing short of the immediate resurrection of Tark will do...

You forgot 'malcontents'

 

[Bleed_Red702]

Anyone who can't see that DR is a better coach overall than he was in his first season (the UNC game, notwithstanding) is delusional.

He will ultimately figure it out, and when he does, it will most likely be for another team, because impatient supporters believe that nothing short of the immediate resurrection of Tark will do...

So what....? We're supposed to let Dave have another 5 years to get to where he should be? The results are in. He's recruited at a high level each year and done worse each year. That's coaching. I could care less if he "figures it out" at another school. Because that probably wouldn't be for another 5-10 years, if ever.

Great guy, great recruiter, terrible leader and coach. Get someone who can motivate, lead, and coach. My fear is rice will do just enough to keep his job and we will be stuck on this roller coaster on the outskirts of hell for another year.

"But we can't lose our recruits!" Who cares about the recruits when rice isn't doing jack with them. Rice underachieves more than any coach I know of. I'm fine with losing recruits and having a couple down years if it means we can get a real coach that can actually build a program.

 

[Doubleyew]

Just don't lie to everyone and say the team will use a press defense (that works!) and end up in the now 80's in tempo. If UNLV had the tempo of say Davidson, with the defense we currently have, top 25 team. Push the ball before the other team can get the defense set. UNLV is currently one of the best teams in fast break finishing, so USE IT!

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

So what....? We're supposed to let Dave have another 5 years to get to where he should be? The results are in. He's recruited at a high level each year and done worse each year. That's coaching. I could care less if he "figures it out" at another school. Because that probably wouldn't be for another 5-10 years, if ever.

Great guy, great recruiter, terrible leader and coach. Get someone who can motivate, lead, and coach. My fear is rice will do just enough to keep his job and we will be stuck on this roller coaster on the outskirts of hell for another year.

"But we can't lose our recruits!" Who cares about the recruits when rice isn't doing jack with them. Rice underachieves more than any coach I know of. I'm fine with losing recruits and having a couple down years if it means we can get a real coach that can actually build a program.

Devil's advocate here, but you are fine having 'a couple of down years if it means we can get a real coach'. Maybe we just went through our couple of down years and we are on the upswing? First two years were ok, took a dip in year two. Who knows maybe things are headed in the right direction this year. Season is far from over.

Not sure why you would be worried Rice may continue to do the same thing over and over. Hasn't that essentially been UNLV basketball for the last 20 odd years? Let's be honest on a national stage UNLV is a middling college basketball program and has been for awhile. A tournament appearance here, maybe a sweet 16 sprinkled in, sandwiched between a bunch of 20-10 seasons. Schools like Gonzaga and more recently Butler have surpassed UNLV on a national stage.

Like the previous poster said, the same calls for Lon's head were going on 5 years ago. He can't recruit, this is as far as he can take us, etc.

The bit about him not being a motivator is somewhat tired. Shouldn't guys actually want to play hard? Or you know,,, win? If he is recruiting guys that need to be 'motivated' then shame on him for recruiting that type of player. Guys are either born to compete or they are not. Great players don't need to be motivated. They are self motivated, just like successful people in other walks of life. If you think you are seeing teams that are not motivated night in and night out then maybe Dave is a good recruiter but a poor judge of character.

UNLV cannot pay enough to get a 'big time' coach to come here. Should Rice not succeed this year and gets fired, you may get your wish of a new coach. Our current players along with some of the incoming recruits may decide not to honor their commitments or transfer. Not saying they will but the possibility exists. We may have to start from scratch. People say they are ok with that as long as Rice is gone. That may well be true. I have a hard time believing that if UNLV fires Dave Rice after this year and we get a new coach, we won't be having the same exact conversations if there are struggles the first season or two. Coach X is terrible, he can't recruit like Rice, or he isn't as good an X and O guy as Lon. Coach X doesn't make adjustments, he lets the players walk all over him, he can't motivate anybody. I want to see us play Runnin Rebel basketball..Back when Tark was here...etc etc etc etc.

This isn't to say UNLV should be fearful and not fire Dave Rice if this season goes poorly. But can we at least get to conference play before we start calling for his ousting?

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Just don't lie to everyone and say the team will use a press defense (that works!) and end up in the now 80's in tempo. If UNLV had the tempo of say Davidson, with the defense we currently have, top 25 team. Push the ball before the other team can get the defense set. UNLV is currently one of the best teams in fast break finishing, so USE IT!

They do not shoot well enough or consistently enough to employ the press all the time or force tempo.

They also have to hit free throws consistently to employ the press.

Not sure there was any lie told.

.

 

[Bleed_Red702]

Devil's advocate here, but you are fine having 'a couple of down years if it means we can get a real coach'. Maybe we just went through our couple of down years and we are on the upswing? First two years were ok, took a dip in year two. Who knows maybe things are headed in the right direction this year. Season is far from over.

Not sure why you would be worried Rice may continue to do the same thing over and over. Hasn't that essentially been UNLV basketball for the last 20 odd years? Let's be honest on a national stage UNLV is a middling college basketball program and has been for awhile. A tournament appearance here, maybe a sweet 16 sprinkled in, sandwiched between a bunch of 20-10 seasons. Schools like Gonzaga and more recently Butler have surpassed UNLV on a national stage.

Like the previous poster said, the same calls for Lon's head were going on 5 years ago. He can't recruit, this is as far as he can take us, etc.

The bit about him not being a motivator is somewhat tired. Shouldn't guys actually want to play hard? Or you know,,, win? If he is recruiting guys that need to be 'motivated' then shame on him for recruiting that type of player. Guys are either born to compete or they are not. Great players don't need to be motivated. They are self motivated, just like successful people in other walks of life. If you think you are seeing teams that are not motivated night in and night out then maybe Dave is a good recruiter but a poor judge of character.

UNLV cannot pay enough to get a 'big time' coach to come here. Should Rice not succeed this year and gets fired, you may get your wish of a new coach. Our current players along with some of the incoming recruits may decide not to honor their commitments or transfer. Not saying they will but the possibility exists. We may have to start from scratch. People say they are ok with that as long as Rice is gone. That may well be true. I have a hard time believing that if UNLV fires Dave Rice after this year and we get a new coach, we won't be having the same exact conversations if there are struggles the first season or two. Coach X is terrible, he can't recruit like Rice, or he isn't as good an X and O guy as Lon. Coach X doesn't make adjustments, he lets the players walk all over him, he can't motivate anybody. I want to see us play Runnin Rebel basketball..Back when Tark was here...etc etc etc etc.

This isn't to say UNLV should be fearful and not fire Dave Rice if this season goes poorly. But can we at least get to conference play before we start calling for his ousting?

Let me say that this is all predicated on how the season finishes. In my book he not only has to make the dance, but also win a game and get out of the first round for him to keep his job. If he can do that then I'm fine with him staying.

But from what I've seen in the last few games, I've lost hope that he can do that. I'm seeing repitition from last year. Getting big leads, not making adjustments, losing big leads, losing games. Poor play calling, especially out of a time out. Going scoreless for 5-10 minutes how many times now? Dave can't draw up a play to get an easy basket? And yes, I realize the players have to execute, but he hasn't drawn up very good plays.

And as far as recruiting goes, rice has shown that we can land good talent. It shouldn't be hard for a new coach to land talent. And the whole money argument is terrible. We were paying Lon over twice as much as rice. Unlv can afford a better coach and there are boosters who are willing to fork up money for it too.

Hopefully when rice is gone unlv doesn't drop the ball again on the next hire.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

Let me say that this is all predicated on how the season finishes. In my book he not only has to make the dance, but also win a game and get out of the first round for him to keep his job. If he can do that then I'm fine with him staying.

But from what I've seen in the last few games, I've lost hope that he can do that. I'm seeing repitition from last year. Getting big leads, not making adjustments, losing big leads, losing games. Poor play calling, especially out of a time out. Going scoreless for 5-10 minutes how many times now? Dave can't draw up a play to get an easy basket? And yes, I realize the players have to execute, but he hasn't drawn up very good plays.

And as far as recruiting goes, rice has shown that we can land good talent. It shouldn't be hard for a new coach to land talent. And the whole money argument is terrible. We were paying Lon over twice as much as rice. Unlv can afford a better coach and there are boosters who are willing to fork up money for it too.

Hopefully when rice is gone unlv doesn't drop the ball again on the next hire.

We were paying Lon more than Rice. Which still wasn't as much as OU is paying him I don't believe. UNLV cannot outbid most P5 schools for coaches. Maybe a bad example but if it had been UNLV vs Texas bidding for the services of Shaka Smart we lose. So yes money does play a role in these decisions. Then you have to get the boosters to agree on the same coach. Seems simple enough until you consider there are people still complaining about not hiring Theus.

As for poor play calling? Go back and look at the shot chart for UNLV's loss against ASU. There were a lot of missed shots from free throw line in. There is no play call that removes defenders from the court. ASU ran primarily man in that game. So our 4* guys did not win individual match ups and did not convert. They also got embarrassed on the glass in that game.

As far as adjustments. Rice threw zone, pressed and made 'adjustments' against UofA all throughout the game. He managed foul trouble as well as possible, especially considering the disparity in fouls. He called a timeout in an attempt to slow a Uof A run. We were without Zimm almost the entire game, but we remained competitive. Rice had something to do with that. Yet not one person came on here and said, Rice did a good job helping keep us in the game. Instead it was about the players 'showing some fire' or 'playing with heart'. Which seems odd since Rice is supposedly unable to fire up his guys. Or did they all of a sudden become motivated on their own?

Again, I am not A Rice sympathizer. But people should be equal and fair in their criticisms and praise. Rice did a very good job coaching in the loss to UofA. We beat Oregon and all the talk was how great this player did or how that guy was great. Nobody said anything about Rice having his guys ready or formulating a good game plan. Seems odd Rice is only mentioned as the reason we lose but never given credit for a win.

If he doesn't get to the round of 32 in the tournament, then the search for a new coach should probably start.

 

[rebelluver]

If we make it to the tournament that will be enough to keep his job.

When it comes down to it, most people are upset about the second half to ASU, and they should be.

None of the other 3 were bad losses. I think we played pretty well against UA, but anything other than a win was going to prompt more Rice sucks stuff. That really isn't fair. There isn't 10 teams in the country that I would have expected to win that game.

 

[Doubleyew]

They do not shoot well enough or consistently enough to employ the press all the time or force tempo.

They also have to hit free throws consistently to employ the press.

Not sure there was any lie told.

.

You're missing the point completely. I don't CARE if they don't shoot well or consistently. They SHOULD have been TRAINED and COACHED to run this system. Believe in the system and run your program and stick with it as it will improve. Don't just scrap it after a couple games cause it seems like it didn't work (IT DID). You see Syracuse breaking away from a 2-3 zone? I don't think so. Players understand after awhile how to run it like an oiled machine.

I'm completely content losing games at this point if it's Runnin' rebel basketball. Play their game and I'm good with it. Think of it like VCU's havok defense. A bunch of undersized guys pinning, trapping, hustling, and working for the steals and passing lanes and if it leads to easy point, fantastic. If not, they at least played their game.

On a side note about Kruger and Rice. Please, compare them all you want. Lon improved the program pretty much each season and could actually coach, even if he didn't get the highest rated recruits. Rice, as we see it right now can recruit like Calipari, but absolutely and completely lacks coaching basketball to his players. Every single year since he's been at the helm has been worse than the last, and this was supposed to be 'the year Rice gets over the hump cause it's all his players" but we're staring at another mediocre season in an awful MWC.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

If we make it to the tournament that will be enough to keep his job.

When it comes down to it, most people are upset about the second half to ASU, and they should be.

None of the other 3 were bad losses. I think we played pretty well against UA, but anything other than a win was going to prompt more Rice sucks stuff. That really isn't fair. There isn't 10 teams in the country that I would have expected to win that game.

You could be right getting to the tournament might be enough. I will say it depends on how we get there as well. If we are dominant in conference and get bounced in round 1 he may be ok. If we don't win regular season title and only get in by winning conference tourney, not sure that will be enough.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

You're missing the point completely. I don't CARE if they don't shoot well or consistently. They SHOULD have been TRAINED and COACHED to run this system. Believe in the system and run your program and stick with it as it will improve. Don't just scrap it after a couple games cause it seems like it didn't work (IT DID). You see Syracuse breaking away from a 2-3 zone? I don't think so. Players understand after awhile how to run it like an oiled machine.

I'm completely content losing games at this point if it's Runnin' rebel basketball. Play their game and I'm good with it. Think of it like VCU's havok defense. A bunch of undersized guys pinning, trapping, hustling, and working for the steals and passing lanes and if it leads to easy point, fantastic. If not, they at least played their game.

On a side note about Kruger and Rice. Please, compare them all you want. Lon improved the program pretty much each season and could actually coach, even if he didn't get the highest rated recruits. Rice, as we see it right now can recruit like Calipari, but absolutely and completely lacks coaching basketball to his players. Every single year since he's been at the helm has been worse than the last, and this was supposed to be 'the year Rice gets over the hump cause it's all his players" but we're staring at another mediocre season in an awful MWC.

Ok none of that made sense to me. You don't care if they lose as long as they play 'Runnin Rebel Basketball' I am a Steeler fan and people always say 'play Steeler Football' which at one time was run the ball and play defense. Now it is a high powered pass first dynamic offense with a middle of the road defense. Times change players change systems change. Stacey, Larry, Anderson and Greg aren't walking through the door anytime soon. We haven't played 'Runnin Rebel Basketball' for over 20 years.

I never compared Lon and Dave. Not sure what your point was there. I liked Lon and think he was/is a very good basketball coach. For whatever reason he couldn't bring in the 5 star recruits. He still won without them, but it wasn't enough for UNLV fans. He brought the program back, but to say the program was getting better every year would be false. Why would people have wanted him to leave if the program were trending up? The reality was Lon like he has done at all of his previous stops reached his peak at UNLV. He might go on to win a title at OU, but if history repeats he will get them to 22-8 24-6 every year and get bounced in the sweet 16. Not knocking the guy but that has been the history of his career.

Personally I am not content with them losing as long as they play 'Runnin Rebel' basketball. I would rather run Princeton"s system and beat teams 50-45 than lose 95-90 playing 'Runnin Rebel' basketball.

They are being 'trained and coached' in this system. I am not sure you understand how the press works. If you miss shots you cannot set up the press. If you miss free throws you cannot set up the press. That is basketball 101.

If these guys aren't being coached properly how to run the press, take some of your disgust out on Stacey A. as well since that was part of the reason he was brought in. To help teach Tark's old system.

Funny you bring up Syracuse and their defense. Are you one of the people that hammers Rice about not being able to break down zone? Because according to a lot of folks on here zone defense is easy to figure out. So I have no idea how Syracuse has been so successful running zone all these years.

Maybe the guys that were brought in who Dave thought could run the system haven't worked out.

In the end Dave's future will be determined on how this season plays out, not whether or not he plays 'Runnin Rebel' basketball.

 

[rebelluver]

On one hand hand he is criticized for doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results... You know, he is insane.

On the other he is criticized for not sticking to the press. Believe in what he is teaching...

I understand people have doubts, and they absolutely should. The critiquing gets out of control sometimes.

 

[TarkisGod]

And as far as recruiting goes, rice has shown that we can land good talent. It shouldn't be hard for a new coach to land talent.

It must be wonderful to have such a revisionist memory. "We" can land good talent??? Again let me hearken back to the previous coach. One of the chief complaints was his inability to land prize recruits.

Even before Kruger, it always went something like this...A blue-chipper mentions the Rebels in his list of possible destinations. But in the end we watched him take his skills to UCLA or Arizona, or Kentucky or Kansas, etc, etc., etc...

Rice hasn't shown that "We can land good talent", he has shown that "HE" can do so. Say what you will about his coaching skills, but ignoring the fact that he is the very best recruiter UNLV has ever had (and yes, I'm even including Tark) is absurd. Fire him, and see how quickly we return to being an also-ran when it comes to landing big-time talent.

 

[rebelluver]

I remember the days when even being mentioned in the list of a 5 star talent got this board all excited.

Getting good players is more than half the battle. Let's hope Rice can become a better coach because there is very little chance the next guy can bring in this level of player.

 

[rebelluver]

I will write the next reply so nobody has to waste their time.

But if he can't coach them then who cares what kind of player he brings in!!!!

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

I will write the next reply so nobody has to waste their time.

But if he can't coach them then who cares what kind of player he brings in!!!!

You forgot to capitalize to emphasize your point. The exclamation points were a nice touch though.

 

[Bleed_Red702]

It must be wonderful to have such a revisionist memory. "We" can land good talent??? Again let me hearken back to the previous coach. One of the chief complaints was his inability to land prize recruits.

Even before Kruger, it always went something like this...A blue-chipper mentions the Rebels in his list of possible destinations. But in the end we watched him take his skills to UCLA or Arizona, or Kentucky or Kansas, etc, etc., etc...

Rice hasn't shown that "We can land good talent", he has shown that "HE" can do so. Say what you will about his coaching skills, but ignoring the fact that he is the very best recruiter UNLV has ever had (and yes, I'm even including Tark) is absurd. Fire him, and see how quickly we return to being an also-ran when it comes to landing big-time talent.

Kruger didn't have a finished Mendenhall center. AAU ball wasn't as big in Vegas then. I have no doubt that if we were able to keep Kruger and he showed a little more effort in the recruiting aspect that we wouldn't be landing better players with him. But you can totally go off the hypotheticals and make it seem like it is only rice that is pulling in these recruits. Give me a break.

And if we did fire him that doesn't mean we would return to mediocre recruiting. That statement right there shows how short sighted you are. But hey, let's keep rice because he can recruit these 5 stars and not do anything with them because that's what it's all about. Right? Another "MWC Recruiting Championship".

 

[Doubleyew]

Ok none of that made sense to me. You don't care if they lose as long as they play 'Runnin Rebel Basketball' I am a Steeler fan and people always say 'play Steeler Football' which at one time was run the ball and play defense. Now it is a high powered pass first dynamic offense with a middle of the road defense. Times change players change systems change. Stacey, Larry, Anderson and Greg aren't walking through the door anytime soon. We haven't played 'Runnin Rebel Basketball' for over 20 years.

I never compared Lon and Dave. Not sure what your point was there. I liked Lon and think he was/is a very good basketball coach. For whatever reason he couldn't bring in the 5 star recruits. He still won without them, but it wasn't enough for UNLV fans. He brought the program back, but to say the program was getting better every year would be false. Why would people have wanted him to leave if the program were trending up? The reality was Lon like he has done at all of his previous stops reached his peak at UNLV. He might go on to win a title at OU, but if history repeats he will get them to 22-8 24-6 every year and get bounced in the sweet 16. Not knocking the guy but that has been the history of his career.

Personally I am not content with them losing as long as they play 'Runnin Rebel' basketball. I would rather run Princeton"s system and beat teams 50-45 than lose 95-90 playing 'Runnin Rebel' basketball.

They are being 'trained and coached' in this system. I am not sure you understand how the press works. If you miss shots you cannot set up the press. If you miss free throws you cannot set up the press. That is basketball 101.

If these guys aren't being coached properly how to run the press, take some of your disgust out on Stacey A. as well since that was part of the reason he was brought in. To help teach Tark's old system.

Funny you bring up Syracuse and their defense. Are you one of the people that hammers Rice about not being able to break down zone? Because according to a lot of folks on here zone defense is easy to figure out. So I have no idea how Syracuse has been so successful running zone all these years.

Maybe the guys that were brought in who Dave thought could run the system haven't worked out.

In the end Dave's future will be determined on how this season plays out, not whether or not he plays 'Runnin Rebel' basketball.

I'll break it down for you, since it's not getting through.
1. Dave Rice said his team, especially this season, would play at an UPTEMPO pace, which includes pressing, fast breaks, steals, pushing the ball up the court. Those types of things. Example of contrary: 1st few games looked great, press was good, defense was stellar and fast breaks ensued, in which it's easier to set up a press after the made baskets. To say we can't get another Larry, Stacey, Greg, etc, I disagree completely with that. Larry came from Odessa college and we are currently getting NBA draft picks but still going 18-15 somehow.

2. Lon comparison wasn't directed at you, but since you don't think it was getting any better, here are the stats by year. Keep in mind Lon didnt have the recruitment but did a whole lot more with a whole lot less in a much stronger MWC:
17-14 - NIT
17-13
30-7 - NCAA Sweet 16
27-8 - NCAA 2nd Round
21-11 - NIT
25-9 - NCAA 1st Round
24-9 - NCAA 2nd Round

Rice:
26-9 NCAA 1st round
25-10 NCAA 1st round - Bennett drafted
20-13 - Roscoe, Birch declared
18-15 - Vaughn drafted, Wood declared

3. I understand press quite fine. Play hard, pressing defense, get a steal, block a shot, defensive board, and push the ball up for fast break. Make the dunk, set the press. Rinse and recycle.

4. Head coaches get the target for their system and the players and assistants they bring in. If Stacey is to blame for coaching how to run the press then thow him under the bus. From what I've seen though, Stacey is the guy that's developing the bigs which he's done a pretty good job.

5. I brought up Syracuse zone for 2 reasons:
A) because once the players 'get it', they understand the system and how to play it. UNLV doesn't seem to 'get' the press, but by now I feel like they should.
B) Zone can be beaten with coaching. Man-to-man can be beaten with athleticism and one-on-one matchups which UNLV players have. Zone takes coaching how to bust it, and that doesn't just mean toss the ball around the perimeter without anyone moving inside and jacking up a 3 pointer with 2 seconds left on the shot clock. You can just tell the team doesn't know what to do when the zone kicks in.

I guess we'll just all wait and see how this season shakes out. The MWC is the worst this year than it's been in a long time. I really want this team to do well, which is why I'm so passionate about it and the program. I'm just sick and tired of the hype, and each year under Rice finishing worse than the last.

 

[TarkisGod]

I have no doubt that if we were able to keep Kruger and he showed a little more effort in the recruiting aspect that we wouldn't be landing better players with him. But you can totally go off the hypotheticals and make it seem like it is only rice that is pulling in these recruits. Give me a break.

So I'm the one offering hypotheticals? That's...interesting...

Actually my comments are purely fact-based. Prior to the arrival of Dave Rice, be it with Kruger, or Spoonhour or Bayno or whomever (?), high-school All-Americans did not come to UNLV. Suggesting that all would be solved by the addition of an improved practice facility and local tournaments, well now that is pure conjecture.

Were Tark coaching today, there would be no National Championship. Larry Johnson would have never come here from JC. He'd have been in the NBA before that. And Stacy would have undoubtedly gone pro by his sophomore year. My point is that coaching college hoops today is completely different than it was 10 years ago. Rice is in his first attempt. Admittedly he's had difficulties learning the craft. But he's better now than he was in previous years. He's a Rhodes Scholar candidate. A very intelligent man. He will figure it out, and if the ridiculously impatient fans will stay with him, he will ultimately become a winner.

And coupled with his already impressive recruiting skills (see above), success is around the corner. Possibly as soon as this season...

 

[YellowSpinE]

And this board will continue to be the home of whiners and bitchers.

Let's go back, say five years...The overwhelming sentiment here was that Lon Kruger was unable to recruit 4- and 5-star players. That he had "reached his ceiling" as a coach. You know, Lon Kruger, the coach of the #3 Oklahoma Sooners.

Undoubtedly all of you Rice-haters will loudly protest that you were not the ones clamoring for the ouster of Kruger. But someone was saying it. I'll bet a lot of you were the same one's now demanding the head of Dave Rice.

Anyone who can't see that DR is a better coach overall than he was in his first season (the UNC game, notwithstanding) is delusional.

He will ultimately figure it out, and when he does, it will most likely be for another team, because impatient supporters believe that nothing short of the immediate resurrection of Tark will do...

A) I had no issue with Kruger leaving. Like most felt he reached his ceiling. And yea, he is doing great at OK! Happy for him. He did wonderful things for UNLV while he was here. Nothing but respect for Kruger.
B) I don't hate Rice. I wish he freaking would be successful. Reality is that hasn't transpired yet. Every year I hope he has learned. Every year I see the same issues with simple fundamental basketball. Every year his record gets worse, as the recruiting classes get better.
C) Rolling into conference play, see how things go. Will Rice turn the corner and have a good conference season? Or will we end up at the start of the 2016/17 season with 80% turn over of players, again?

Will see.......

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

.

1) Yes Dave Rice said his teams would be uptempo especially this one. Last year they could not be as uptempo as they would have liked because they did not have the bench to do so. This year when they have shot the ball well, and have rebounded well on the defensive end they have pushed tempo. Your assertion that Dave Rice somehow lied is false. It also makes no sense for him to say one thing and do another. He has enough heat under his seat as it is. Now if you want to argue it's Dave Rice's fault the team has not shot the ball well and has not rebounded well be my guest. But playing uptempo also requires your team to rebound well on the defensive side. In the games they have rebounded well they have forced tempo. Games they have not (namely ASU and Wichita) they have not forced tempo. Wichita is also fantastic at playing a grinding style of basketball and forcing their own tempo. Sometimes the other team actually has an influence on the game. I will have to look it up but I think scoring is up over last year, so you can't say there isn't an effort being made to deliver on the promise of uptempo basketball. It may not have reached the levels you want, but he is attempting to bring that style of basketball back.

2) The overwhelming consensus with UNLV fans was that Lon had reached his peak at UNLV. Unless he recruited better we were going to win 20-24 games a year and get bounced in the round of the 32. Also Lon has how many more years as a head coach than Dave Rice? So there are growing pains to be expected with any coach. Coach K. was nearly on his way out at Duke before turning things around. (Not comparing Rice to K just giving an example) This is year 5, I think even the most ardent Dave Rice supporter would say if we don't win the conference title this year or we somehow miss the tournament, it is time for a change.

3) You said in your post, you have to rebound to run/set up the press. What is the common denominator in the games we have not been able to run the press or force tempo, specifically vs ASU and WSU? We have not shot the ball well and we have not rebounded well on the defensive side. Again if you want to argue that falls on Rice so be it. But players have to make shots and players also have to rebound the ball. In both of those games we did neither.

5) If zone defense is so easy to break down please explain how Syracuse won a title running primarily zone. Syracuse and that zone have given coaches and players alike from both the Big East and the ACC fits for years. You saying it comes down to just coaching is short sighted. That would be like saying the wishbone in college football is easy to defend. Yet somehow despite running the same type of offense year in and year out with lesser talent Army, Navy and Air Force all rank in the top 10 in rushing year after year. Defending the option is like beating zone defense. Both are meant to slow the pace of the game down. To beat the option or zone you have to have a game plan to attack it or defend against it. Next you have to have guys execute said game plan. You can run the best play in the world against zone and if guys miss open looks from 3 or don't convert down low it really doesn't matter. Now if you want to argue that Rice is slow to adjust to teams when they switch to zone I might agree with you there. I am sure considering the experience on Dave's bench they have discussed the best ways possible to beat certain zone looks. Even then if the other team (like a Syracuse) has the right guys that buy into the system and execute, you may have limited success. If zone were so easy to break down and simply took good coaching to beat, nobody would run it. No offense but there are basketball coaches a lot smarter than you and I are, who's teams have struggled against a team employing a zone defense.

I will say it again, I am not a Rice supporter or detractor. I think this is his make or break year. I am a fan of UNLV sports. I don't care how we play, what style or what system, so long as we win. I just find it odd that after we win a game the Anti Rice crowd will say how great the players were but not give Rice any credit at all. Yet if we lose, it was all Dave's fault. Players missed shots=Dave not knowing how to coach offense. Players get beat on the boards=Dave not teaching them to box out. Players look like they aren't giving a good effort=Dave can't motivate his guys.

Dave Rice did a great job keeping UNLV in the game against UofA. He managed foul trouble well, he didn't have his Zimm for nearly the entire game. He called time outs at good times to attempt to slow UofA runs. He switched out of the press and man to man in an attempt to give UofA different looks. He got T'd up for going after an official. He ripped into a couple of his players for poor decision making. Those are things people complained about and said he never does. Yet not one person from the 'anti-Rice' crowd acknowledged any of that.

I hope Dave Rice has this job for another 10 years. Not because I like Dave Rice, but because it means the program is winning and doing well.

 

[Bullmastiff 1]

So I'm the one offering hypotheticals? That's...interesting...

Actually my comments are purely fact-based. Prior to the arrival of Dave Rice, be it with Kruger, or Spoonhour or Bayno or whomever (?), high-school All-Americans did not come to UNLV. Suggesting that all would be solved by the addition of an improved practice facility and local tournaments, well now that is pure conjecture.

Were Tark coaching today, there would be no National Championship. Larry Johnson would have never come here from JC. He'd have been in the NBA before that. And Stacy would have undoubtedly gone pro by his sophomore year. My point is that coaching college hoops today is completely different than it was 10 years ago. Rice is in his first attempt. Admittedly he's had difficulties learning the craft. But he's better now than he was in previous years. He's a Rhodes Scholar candidate. A very intelligent man. He will figure it out, and if the ridiculously impatient fans will stay with him, he will ultimately become a winner.

And coupled with his already impressive recruiting skills (see above), success is around the corner. Possibly as soon as this season...

Crazy talk...