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Keyshawn Hall

rebel5280 said:
The other side of it is, the coach could have been a big part of the problem!
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Sometimes players sulk, sometimes they don't go hard, sometimes they think they deserve more than they do. If it's persistent, it becomes a problem. If you cave to what every player thinks is best, you're going to have a huge mess.

Though he had talent, he epitomized entitlement from what I saw.

It cuts both ways, maybe it should have been better assessed when he was recruited? Maybe he got sick of not as much PT as he wanted early on and it was more revealed as the season progressed.
 
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j. spilotro said:
Sometimes players sulk, sometimes they don't go hard, sometimes they think they deserve more than they do. If it's persistent, it becomes a problem. If you cave to what every player thinks is best, you're going to have a huge mess.

Though he had talent, he epitomized entitlement from what I saw.

It cuts both ways, maybe it should have been better assessed when he was recruited? Maybe he got sick of not as much PT as he wanted early on and it was more revealed as the season progressed.
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Good for him for doing what it takes to become a good college basketball player.

He obviously had talent here and could really put the ball in the hoop, but he was just not in enough shape to play hard on both ends of the floor. I can see why he could have been frustrated last year since we struggled to score often and he could have helped, but I understand from the coaching staff's view if he is getting beat and being a factor for giving up easier buckets then he should sit.
Especially if he is getting gassed.
He is obviously in better shape, and you need some hustle to get that many boards. Who knows how he is defending. But he has obviously learned a good amount from his experience here in terms of what it takes.
I will always understand if a coach doesn't want a player that doesn't commit to the defensive end, especially a Kruger. That's how you build culture. Sometimes you have to crack some eggs.
 
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In fairness Kruger probably had commitments to certain players and Hall was a true freshman, with undeniable talent, but lower on totem pole if he couldn't prove he should've gotten more playing time. Looks like now is his time to shine sadly for a different program.
 
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j. spilotro said:
Sometimes players sulk, sometimes they don't go hard, sometimes they think they deserve more than they do. If it's persistent, it becomes a problem. If you cave to what every player thinks is best, you're going to have a huge mess.

Though he had talent, he epitomized entitlement from what I saw.

It cuts both ways, maybe it should have been better assessed when he was recruited? Maybe he got sick of not as much PT as he wanted early on and it was more revealed as the season progressed.
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I get this and respect this style and method BUT Kruger is quickly proving to everyone he is not the guy to coach. Look no further than the Southern game, the team was unprepared to play and practices leading up to opening night were lax with no attention to detail.

That screams coaching or a lack there of!
 
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rebel5280 said:
I get this and respect this style and method BUT Kruger is quickly proving to everyone he is not the guy to coach. Look no further than the Southern game, the team was unprepared to play and practices leading up to opening night were lax with no attention to detail.

That screams coaching or a lack there of!
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When his dad did the same with Lamar Roberson, Emmanuel Adeife, John Winston, Wilbur Williams, and a slew of others, that was ok? But it’s not ok now?

I get being pissed that we aren’t winning and the immediate prospects are bleak, as well. But it doesn’t mean every single move is wrong.
 
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reagan21 said:
“pushed him out.”

Ok.
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I love when people that are not in the room or tied into the program speak about things they dont know about. If you actually are tied into the program, youd know that he was actually pushed out and one of the transfers was his direct replacement.

It didnt have to work out this way, but it did. I'm actually not too mad about it because I like his direct replacement a lot, but I wish we had both and one of our current players left instead.
 
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lobbybuu said:
I love when people that are not in the room or tied into the program speak about things they dont know about. If you actually are tied into the program, youd know that he was actually pushed out and one of the transfers was his direct replacement.

It didnt have to work out this way, but it did. I'm actually not too mad about it because I like his direct replacement a lot, but I wish we had both and one of our current players left instead.
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K.

I’m guessing we have a different definition of being forced or pushed out.

If my daughter opens the back door, walks outside, tells me she’s going to play with other friends, and I shut the door……
 
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j. spilotro said:
Kid could have been a lot more coachable. You could see his talent. It was sporadic but it was there.
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He was a true freshmen… A LOT of growing up to do. Guys can change and he obviously did just judging on his body transformation. You could see glimpses of his talent level. He is the type of player that dominates in the MW.
 
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Both parties contributed to Hall leaving I'm pretty sure.

The kid came in overweight, and coaches frickin' hate that. He was slow on defensive rotations. But I still stand by the fact that he had one of the quickest hooks i've ever seen for a rebel player. Gilbert would have 3 turovers in a row and a foul in 2 minutes and he'd get a butt tap, Justin Webster would be so late on his closeouts that he'd be coming down from contesting after the ball was already inbounded from and he'd get that low get pumped clap, Keyshawn missed a box out assignment and he can sit for the next 4 games. Hard to get confidence in game situations when the coach makes it clear they have negative confidence in you despite selling you a bill of good that you were going to be a key part of the rebuilding here.

If we're comparing him to PapaKrugs, he also decided he didn't like players and would have them surf the pine on the way to someplace else, but he's find minutes for Chopper Jones and Andy Friggin' Hannan. You could need back up center minutes and Lon would rather set his dick on fire than give Carlos Lopez-Sosa 3 minutes of non-garbage time burn. And I'm still bitter to this day about running John Winston out of town--even though realisitically he wasn't a great player.

I didn't like it when Papa Krugs did it, but the difference is after 2 years that team was clearly headed in a better direction. But I hate that style of coaching. Hated it when Lon did it. Hate it when Kevin does it. I undestand that work in practice can grant you a longer leash in games, but I also know that it looks especially shitty from the kid's perspective.

I wish Hall all the luck in the world.
 
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This is not good but this is a far second place to the team not winning and having a team identity. That has been an ongoing issue for years now. Kevin is a great kid but its been rough so far.
 
This year Hall is Barnaby. Sit that big, slow ass Karl Jones down and give Barnabie some burns...see what he got.
 
j. spilotro said:
When his dad did the same with Lamar Roberson, Emmanuel Adeife, John Winston, Wilbur Williams, and a slew of others, that was ok? But it’s not ok now?

I get being pissed that we aren’t winning and the immediate prospects are bleak, as well. But it doesn’t mean every single move is wrong.
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The kid was recruited and you do your homework up front on your recruits to avoid problems on the backend not during or after they are brought in.
Kevin did not handle him right and after seeing his preparation for the start of the season, there is not much else to say but yeah another error on the HC’s part!
 
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Hall dropped 27 points and grabbed 13 boards in a win vs LaSalle. Averaging 21-22ppg and 11 rpg over the last 5. He lost a ton of weight on his own and hasn't been injured all season as far as I can tell. Happy New Year!
 
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rebel5280 said:
The kid was recruited and you do your homework up front on your recruits to avoid problems on the backend not during or after they are brought in.
Kevin did not handle him right and after seeing his preparation for the start of the season, there is not much else to say but yeah another error on the HC’s part!
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Do you just bend over backwards when a kid sulks on a bench and put him in to avoid the sulk? Because he sulked ALOT.

Maybe you should catch that before you recruit him. But sometimes it can slip by you, you might underestimate it, might overestimate yourself.

If this was a rarity, I think it’s easier to point directly at a staff. But it happens everywhere, so that makes me think it’s more systemic hit and miss than anything and you’ll win some, lose some.
 
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j. spilotro said:
When his dad did the same with Lamar Roberson, Emmanuel Adeife, John Winston, Wilbur Williams, and a slew of others, that was ok? But it’s not ok now?

I get being pissed that we aren’t winning and the immediate prospects are bleak, as well. But it doesn’t mean every single move is wrong.
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Yeah but it is evident that the Kruger stubbornness to change or deal with players definitely runs in the family. Since Kevin is NOT a HOF coach (and never will be) it will cost him his job (that he never deserved). I mean, who would stay with that damn switching defense last year that the entire league had scouted to a T if you weren’t ridiculously stubborn?? It was shades of the Fighting Illini NCAA game for half a season.
 
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j. spilotro said:
Do you just bend over backwards when a kid sulks on a bench and put him in to avoid the sulk? Because he sulked ALOT.

Maybe you should catch that before you recruit him. But sometimes it can slip by you, you might underestimate it, might overestimate yourself.

If this was a rarity, I think it’s easier to point directly at a staff. But it happens everywhere, so that makes me think it’s more systemic hit and miss than anything and you’ll win some, lose some.
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He could not manage or motivate him once he was here!
If you can’t coach him, why was he brought here?

We don’t agree on this but that kid could play and he is showing that now elsewhere.

Look objectively at this team this year and tell me that Kevin does little more than turn on the lights and roll out the balls? The janitor does more for the team by keeping the facilities clean.

Kevin is a paper cutout of a coach!
 
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Rebel Hoya said:
Yeah but it is evident that the Kruger stubbornness to change or deal with players definitely runs in the family. Since Kevin is NOT a HOF coach (and never will be) it will cost him his job (that he never deserved). I mean, who would stay with that damn switching defense last year that the entire league had scouted to a T if you weren’t ridiculously stubborn?? It was shades of the Fighting Illini NCAA game for half a season.
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This!

I think it goes deeper, he doesn’t know to change or adapt and that is not who you want coaching the team!
 
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L
rebel5280 said:
He could not manage or motivate him once he was here!
If you can’t coach him, why was he brought here?

We don’t agree on this but that kid could play and he is showing that now elsewhere.

Look objectively at this team this year and tell me that Kevin does little more than turn on the lights and roll out the balls? The janitor does more for the team by keeping the facilities clean.

Kevin is a paper cutout of a coach!
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I’m not defending his coaching or roster management.

But acting if every single decision is wrong (or right) … nobody gets everything right, too many moving parts and nobody gets everything wrong either. Even Tark made mistakes. Even Marv got some things right.

I don’t think his ability was in question. We saw stretches of Hall here where he was dominant and he was a major mismatch. That’s probably why he was taken, they saw that potential.
 
Couev said:
Both parties contributed to Hall leaving I'm pretty sure.

The kid came in overweight, and coaches frickin' hate that. He was slow on defensive rotations. But I still stand by the fact that he had one of the quickest hooks i've ever seen for a rebel player. Gilbert would have 3 turovers in a row and a foul in 2 minutes and he'd get a butt tap, Justin Webster would be so late on his closeouts that he'd be coming down from contesting after the ball was already inbounded from and he'd get that low get pumped clap, Keyshawn missed a box out assignment and he can sit for the next 4 games. Hard to get confidence in game situations when the coach makes it clear they have negative confidence in you despite selling you a bill of good that you were going to be a key part of the rebuilding here.

If we're comparing him to PapaKrugs, he also decided he didn't like players and would have them surf the pine on the way to someplace else, but he's find minutes for Chopper Jones and Andy Friggin' Hannan. You could need back up center minutes and Lon would rather set his dick on fire than give Carlos Lopez-Sosa 3 minutes of non-garbage time burn. And I'm still bitter to this day about running John Winston out of town--even though realisitically he wasn't a great player.

I didn't like it when Papa Krugs did it, but the difference is after 2 years that team was clearly headed in a better direction. But I hate that style of coaching. Hated it when Lon did it. Hate it when Kevin does it. I undestand that work in practice can grant you a longer leash in games, but I also know that it looks especially shitty from the kid's perspective.

I wish Hall all the luck in the world.
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There’s literally a kitchen located upstairs in the practice facility at UNLV

Do they have that at whatever school he’s at these days?

The guy was doomed to fail here.
 
I suspect in his private thoughts today the kid knows he could have put a helluva lot more into himself and his work ethic while at UNLV. And I suspect CKK looks back and privately wishes he made greater efforts to reach the kid and properly motivate him. Blame on both sides, but CKK is the adult and Hall is the 18 yr old freshman. Hall’s problem is common among many freshman. The responsibility is on the guy with the head coach title to do his job and coach the kid. At the end of the day CKK recruited him and CKK needed to coach him. It’s a huge miss and it’s on the coach.
 
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unlove said:
I suspect in his private thoughts today the kid knows he could have put a helluva lot more into himself and his work ethic while at UNLV. And I suspect CKK looks back and privately wishes he made greater efforts to reach the kid and properly motivate him. Blame on both sides, but CKK is the adult and Hall is the 18 yr old freshman. Hall’s problem is common among many freshman. The responsibility is on the guy with the head coach title to do his job and coach the kid. At the end of the day CKK recruited him and CKK needed to coach him. It’s a huge miss and it’s on the coach.
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If this is the case and it is, Kevin is not the right guy for the job and it’s obvious!
 
It's a weird situation.
It's like he knew why he didn't play much last season. He went out and worked hard on all of things that kept him from playing here, but left anyway.
You'd think he would leave and not fix those things, or stay and fix the things. Not both.
Maybe he was pushed out and that experience motivated him to get in better shape?
 
j. spilotro said:
When his dad did the same with Lamar Roberson, Emmanuel Adeife, John Winston, Wilbur Williams, and a slew of others, that was ok? But it’s not ok now?

I get being pissed that we aren’t winning and the immediate prospects are bleak, as well. But it doesn’t mean every single move is wrong.
Click to expand...
ahhh.... Wilbur Williams. He was a character but a great person at his core. Him and John Winston were roommates.... they needed a third roommate who could serve as a good conscience. Simply put, no one should be drinking Moet and Brandy hours before practice... 😮‍💨🙄The BS we all got into as kids. 😂
 
UNLVbro said:
ahhh.... Wilbur Williams. He was a character but a great person at his core. Him and John Winston were roommates.... they needed a third roommate who could serve as a good conscience. Simply put, no one should be drinking Moet and Brandy hours before practice... 😮‍💨🙄The BS we all got into as kids. 😂
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If you knew how often stuff like that happened … but it’s kinda of odd how punishment is sometimes selective.
 
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dcut03 said:
It's a weird situation.
It's like he knew why he didn't play much last season. He went out and worked hard on all of things that kept him from playing here, but left anyway.
You'd think he would leave and not fix those things, or stay and fix the things. Not both.
Maybe he was pushed out and that experience motivated him to get in better shape?
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You know who else was motivated by failure?

"Laces out, Dan!"
1704850395767.png
 
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